Stats: Werder Bremen v Aston Villa 11/8/12
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Werder Bremen 3 - Aston Villa 3






Werder Bremen
3 - 3
Aston Villa
Fullkrug (11), Elia (52), Hunt (71)
Bent (16, 68), Clark (22)
Venue: Weserstadion
The Teams
El Ahmadi
De Bruyne
Game Statistics

The Journalist

Writer: Mike Field Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Saturday August 11 2012

Time: 6:52PM

Your Comments (oldest first)

Change to most recent first
good result away at a good side. looked a little frail defensively at times and i think we all know licahj and stevens are never going to make it. stevens is certainly not going to be a premier league player. very very impressed with big ron tho he looks the real deal!!! hopefully he really can be our new laursen! clark has good attributes but defensively he worries me and i'm a bit worried we will never be able to find a position that he is quite good enough in, almost as if he is quite not good enough technically for misfield but too weak defensively to play at CB! el ahmadi looked good again!
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11/08/2012 19:13:00

Bent ONLY scored 2!!!! Sell now.
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11/08/2012 19:33:00

LoL Vill444 i know only 2 ay pffff, thank god we hae a finisher like DB9 in this team, its a good result away to a decnt German side and good preparation for next weeks opener at West Spam, I was sayingall along Vlarr is class when many were concerned by his so called lack of pace lol but i really hope Randy helps ambo Lambo out a bit and hands him some decent funds in the next few weeks as this sqad is thead bare and will not cope with injuries and suspensions also we could do with a bit of quality and experiance added then Lambo could surprise a few pundits for sure ;) UTV!
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11/08/2012 19:51:00

I did not get to see the game but going by everything I have read sounds like it was all that could be hoped for. It is a completely new defence, it takes time for them to bed in and get to know each others game. It is still to early to know if Stevens and Lichaj will make it under Lambert (although I must say every time I have seen Lichaj I have been impressed). The first few months will be hard on the defence but should lead to some very exciting attacking play. UTV
Tallaght Villan
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11/08/2012 19:55:00

Updated. lol disagree on almost every point Wills. Thought that was Ahmadi's worst for us in the second half, and Clark was close to MotM.
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11/08/2012 19:56:00

i was just trying to be a bit positive at the end about ahmadi at the end i think mike lol. but i agree clark is a good player and has a potential big future with us but i feel sometime he is poor when he has players coming at him with his back to goal and is sloppy sometimes. eg when he slipped in the box they could easily have scored, and although it wasnt really his fault for their third goal he only partially cleared and sent it right to the edge of our box for them to then score. also when we were defending set pieces he lost his headers twice and fell to the ground whilst his man got a header away. its all well and good being able to pass the ball etc but his defensive attributes even though subtle at times are not that good. he also comes out alot and gets exposed which is why there is space behind and vlaar was dropping very deep and clearing for most balls put into and across the box
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11/08/2012 20:33:00

I agreed generally with Mike, though I also think Clark looks a bit weak at times at CB. In fairness to him he has rarely played in the CB position at first team level, playing left back and in midfield. I hope he just needs a few games to get more settled with a new playing partner. What has happened to Herd, is he injured or just out of favour?
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11/08/2012 20:53:00

wills - clark is a class CB but hasn't played there for a couple of years now and so will take time to readjust. As for lichaj never making it lol he's looked excellent on many occasions and gets better every time he plays. Not seen enough of Stevens to say and it seems a bit harsh to write him off so early when he's only had a couple of games. I do agree that the defence conceeding 6 in two games is worrying though
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11/08/2012 20:58:00

i feel sometimes we give players too long to come good.. very fair point about stevens probably havent seen him enough to judge but ive watched him in the reserves and you just know hes not a premier league player. as for licahj im not saying he wont be a stable player but whether he is going to be good enough to ever be our first choice rightback is very unlikley! as villa fans we always say about giving players time to come good, but the only player to have ever really come good was the one we let go, gary cahill! delfonsoue will never be good enough, delph probably wont either. albrighton in my opinion is not good enough either. agbonlahor, who everybody used to go mad about as being the future really isnt a very good football player, i remember years ago having a chat with someone in a pub about aggy and i remember saying then that his technique is so bad he will never be a top class striker, despite everybody else disagreeing. luke moore stefen moore, they never came good. even going back to steven davies and peter whittingham, not good enough. i think bannan has the potential because he is so technically gifted, along with gardner and curruthers. but players like albrighton, i will put my neck on the line and make bets with anybody on here, will never be good solid footballers in the premier league. i no this sounds awfully negative which really really isnt what im normally like but ive just been thinking lol. how long are we meant to give players. agbonlahor is 25
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11/08/2012 21:29:00

Got it down on the forum that it was Vlaar who slid and deflected and Clark closed but not quick enough - no coverage from midfield for that goal. The partnership is looking good though, they just need more than 2 games to click really. By the flipside on one corner, Clark totally out wrestled his man so he's learning that side of the game aswell. He also cleared his fair share I thought of crosses, but Vlaar was superior as you'd expect given experience.

In many ways the comments are right though, he has a lot to learn still but he also has a lot to remember after being shifted around the park over previous seasons. His versatility is an asset, but he really could've done with bedding in in his natural position so the instant stuff he had to learn when making the step up had already been done and it hasn't been.

I also think we are too quick to write off youngsters in many ways. This crop haven't been bedded in properly apart from maybe Carruthers, they have been thrust in, often out of position, so it's hard to judge.

No idea on Herd, just about to check for final updates of the night, so will cover it if an answer is given. Lowton was precautionary over an ankle issue though.

As for players making it, Stefan wasn't interested outside of Villa, Luke should've been given the faith Gabby was but he's still back in the Prem now. Ridgewell Prem, Cahill Prem, Davis Prem, Whits has interest now he's found himself. But loads go on to have good careers but if the benchmark is Rooney then almost every club fails don't they.
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11/08/2012 21:38:00

Herd/Delboy thigh strains.
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11/08/2012 21:51:00

Ive just watched it back it was 100% clark who made the slide and assisted their third goal lol. obviously rooney is not a benchmark, i was not talking about our academy failing or succeeding? we can not judge this, the academy could equally been seen as a success if players such as albrighton and licahj get sold for £3m a piece in a few years time because it is the club nurturing an asset from nothing and making a huge profit on money invested in the players development. What my point was is putting faith in players who probably never really will make it is not beneficial to us because when they struggle (e.g albrighton last season) all it means is we then realise they are not good enough but players seem to become indispensable because they are aston villa fans regardless of whether they are good enough or not, ALA agbonlahor..... Hopefully Clark will turn out to be as good as we all obviously hope. but at the same time he is certainly weak defensively at the moment and it is another case of us saying that he will get better as time goes on, which as we can recall, hasn't always worked out.
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11/08/2012 21:51:00

Agree Wills. We don't ever seem to make top quality players from our academy. They are good but never take that final step up to the next level. We haven't got the monies to attract top players now that Randy has changed his approach. These are the sort of players that we need to get used to. You say Stevens will never make a prem player but I'm afraid to say, that's exactly what he will be in a week's time!! He may not be good but..... It's more to do with the manager anyway. If the players are half decent (Phil Neville etc.)then the manager should be able to make them into a team that will beat most of their peers and occasionally beat the top teams!!!
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11/08/2012 21:56:00

I'll happily bow mate. As said I thought it was Vlaar but not seen replays or the like. Not sure Clark (formerly Vlaar) could've done much else given the stretch they were at but hey ho. Still if we'd have had Ahmadi following up to cover the hole, it would've been dealt with in my mind.

Misunderstood your point then aswell chap, yes we do get carried away with faith, BUT a lot of our Academy history could've been different based on different managers not the players themselves. We have a tendancy to sell them too quickly in my opinion, I wouldn't have got rid of Crouch, Stef when we did. I wouldn't have got rid of Cahill, Ridge when we did, nor Whits or Lukey - especially when you look at who replaced them, they all just needed longer than we'd give them because we were looking for quick fixes. This is where I hope Lambert is different, he'll give them chance to grow instead of taking the first offer.

So shockingly I end the night agreeing with 444 lol and his comment about a players worth in many ways being based on what the manager can achieve. Stevens specifically is too new to judge, seen good and bad, but the class of Bannan, Albie etc need to make this their season and Lambert's style is how they play at their best, so time will tell.

Night folks! Bring on the Spam covered Dildo's!
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11/08/2012 22:06:00

Good to have a proper footballing debate, night mate.
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11/08/2012 22:11:00

avfcwills10...all your point are moot points. You have to give youngsters time. Then you discover whether they are any good or not. Aggbon....has probably had his time though and I agree that he is never going to be a 20 goal a season striker.
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11/08/2012 22:18:00

all of my points are what?
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11/08/2012 22:23:00

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11/08/2012 23:03:00

he said moot
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11/08/2012 23:03:00

which really means "debatable"
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11/08/2012 23:08:00

lichaj wont make it? come on..
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11/08/2012 23:13:00

wills - your judgement on the game and players are clearly based on different material to me. Luke Moore could have been class and we'll never know what might have happened if he'd been managed properly instead of being benched just when he was threatening to find his feet. As for Lichaj, not every full back is in the Ashley Cole mould some are more like Gary neville. Lichaj is steady, has an awesome long throw and is learning his trade. How on earth you can write off players of the calibre of Clark and Lichaj and yet think Bannan has a future is beyond me (but as they say football is a game of opinions). I'm the first to say we overhype our academy prospects but equally I am happy to recognise potential when I see it.
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11/08/2012 23:24:00

Belief goes a long way in the game with players and fans alike. It's a shame there are still some fickle fans around not willing to believe in the work being done to turn our beloved club around. A mix of youth and experience with hungrier players is defo the ticket for me and possitivity will see some of our fringe players get their chance. Not all will take it but then that's football! Great result tbh and I'd be happy with a steady start to the season and build on that. UTV. 19th minute for Stan.
holte ender 1969
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12/08/2012 00:05:00

6 goals in 2 games defence?????? what`s Dunne doing ???? oh wait ,,,he has to ,,,,,,,,,
paul muldrew
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12/08/2012 00:25:00

holte ender 1969, i sincerely hope that you are not calling me a fickle fan. My views are based upon opinions i have made over a number of years. ive had a season ticket since i was about 9 and went to every single game last season both home and away apart from spurs away which was for family reasons. i have also never booed the team, even last season. For you to suggest i am a fickle fan simply because i am making a balanced view of the players we currently have and reflecting it against previous players we have had who have then failed, is pathetic. 'not willing to believe in the work being done to turn our beloved club around' this doesn't even make sense. I was more delighted than anybody that we got PL and wanted him from day 1.
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12/08/2012 00:29:00

As the match finished at almost 1am for me, I'm now up and have read the comments made and I think the main thing to draw from yesterdays match is...... Our squad is still paper thin.
Pride of Lions
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12/08/2012 01:40:00

On the issue of our youth players stepping up, being thrust in etc. We need to loan players out more; Guzan, who was a bit 'flappy', has come back a much better player after playing first team football in a pretty rough Championship environment. Cahill should have got his desired first team football at Bolton but as our player not theirs. Walker, Sturridge, Welbeck, Hart, Foster etc all learned their trade as young first team players elsewhere before returning into their own clubs first teams. The Fonz etc have had short term loans to clubs with strikers, he's not got first team football. Only Bannan and Guzan really benefitted from their loans. Gardner needs to play but isn't yet ready to command a first team spot for us. Segriest definitely, Albi perhaps.
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12/08/2012 12:13:00

I know its all a matter of opinion, but I get a bit ticked off at people who keep saying Gabbi hasn't "made it". The only time he's played in his proper position i.e. up front along side a bigger goalpoacher, was under MON with Carew when he was scoring 15 odd a season. Since then he's been on the wing and up front by himself. He's a very limited player due to certain short comings, e.g. not the best finisher, relies on his pace, but play him the right team and formation and he does an important job that would cost a lot to replace-I think with Bent in a PL team he could prove some doubters wrong. Also, we'd run the risk of replacing him with someone who doesn't care about the club, where Gabbi is the only one in the present squad who I genuinely believe is a true Villa fan. Just my opinion is all!!!
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12/08/2012 12:36:00


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