Aston Villa Forum - Aston Villa v Hull City, Sat 5th August 2017, 5.30pm
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Aston Villa v Hull City, Sat 5th August 2017, 5.30pm
06 August 2017 21:31 Post ID: #1706823 - in reply to #1705657
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Unforgivable miss from Andre Green. He has to score. Its virtually an empty net and he heads wide. A complete lack of composure and a rush of blood to the head with it. Not sure how that's Bruce's fault?

Gabby looked very sharp, Hogan makes intelligent runs but gets very little service from Lansbury or from the wings. The boy is feeding off scraps and has to try and make a goal by himself after a dazzling turn in the box. Shame about the weak finish but all the signs are there.

I can blame Bruce for picking Bacuna. Apart from one cross-field ball, dreadful all game. Couldn't even play a short through ball when we needed it. A very strange decision when Hourihane is on the bench - and that's his ideal position. Mind, he was dreadful last year so maybe Bruce isn't convinced.

The samba cameo was a Hail Mary to nowhere. I felt a bit embarrassed about it. Can we not do better than that?

All in all, a classic Villa showing right from our dust gathering playbook: Down the sides, sit back and then hoof and lob to the big lug up top. Win lose or draw is it ever any different? Hoping for more away at Cardiff.

Edited by Villa_Grizzly 6/8/2017 21:33
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06 August 2017 22:00 Post ID: #1706828 - in reply to #1706756
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Villasince63 - 6/8/2017 17:18

There's a lot been said about the mentality at our club.. a losing mentality.
It's been leveled at the players but I think it includes the fans as well.

Like some on here I have a Villa mate who talks about Bruce getting the sack if after so many games were not this or that, and when he say's it there's like a gleam of excitement in his attitude, like he wants it to happen so in his own small minded way he can say, see I told you so, I was right e.t.c. ..

Why you want your manager after manager to fail just so you an claim to being some footballing expert like some of the football pundits on tv who've never managed a football team in their life.

Really get's on my nerves and we need to change !


Great post. Interesting points.

Last week I questioned whether the negativity on here is representative of the general feeling of villa fans. I was told that it was by one poster and that the tide was turning against Bruce. If that's the case then this club is doomed to failure again. How will anyone succeed if they don't get instant results. It's been shite we all know it. But it's now seemingly becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, a vicious circle. The whinging Villa fans that other fans from other clubs level at us is quite possibly true you know. AGAIN, yes its been shit but we cannot keep going like this. It seems like a 'poor old us thing'. It can't be fun all this can it?.
Negativity seems to cascade from those who are shouting louder than anyone else at the moment. And this forum since pre season and now yesterday has been quite frankly depressing seeing what's been posted on here. Look at where we were last summer. Is it not better. Might be slow but surely it is. Short memories. Then we get the imbalanced view. All very well saying about Bacuna, Gabby etc. Don't necessarily disagree. But why not then say that actually fair play to Bruce aswell he only got bloody John Terry to sign!.

Do fans want to see Bruce fail so than can be proved right?. Don't know. We are not experts but i have not seen or heard any respected pundit or journalist say that Bruce is anything but the right appointment. So are they wrong and the dissenters right?.

I think we all have a big part to play in this and if this continues we will be looking at a new manager and it will all start again and we will fail again.
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06 August 2017 23:27 Post ID: #1706839 - in reply to #1706828
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Melon Donkey - 6/8/2017 22:00

Villasince63 - 6/8/2017 17:18

There's a lot been said about the mentality at our club.. a losing mentality.
It's been leveled at the players but I think it includes the fans as well.

Like some on here I have a Villa mate who talks about Bruce getting the sack if after so many games were not this or that, and when he say's it there's like a gleam of excitement in his attitude, like he wants it to happen so in his own small minded way he can say, see I told you so, I was right e.t.c. ..

Why you want your manager after manager to fail just so you an claim to being some footballing expert like some of the football pundits on tv who've never managed a football team in their life.

Really get's on my nerves and we need to change !


Great post. Interesting points.

Last week I questioned whether the negativity on here is representative of the general feeling of villa fans. I was told that it was by one poster and that the tide was turning against Bruce. If that's the case then this club is doomed to failure again. How will anyone succeed if they don't get instant results. It's been shite we all know it. But it's now seemingly becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, a vicious circle. The whinging Villa fans that other fans from other clubs level at us is quite possibly true you know. AGAIN, yes its been shit but we cannot keep going like this. It seems like a 'poor old us thing'. It can't be fun all this can it?.
Negativity seems to cascade from those who are shouting louder than anyone else at the moment. And this forum since pre season and now yesterday has been quite frankly depressing seeing what's been posted on here. Look at where we were last summer. Is it not better. Might be slow but surely it is. Short memories. Then we get the imbalanced view. All very well saying about Bacuna, Gabby etc. Don't necessarily disagree. But why not then say that actually fair play to Bruce aswell he only got bloody John Terry to sign!.

Do fans want to see Bruce fail so than can be proved right?. Don't know. We are not experts but i have not seen or heard any respected pundit or journalist say that Bruce is anything but the right appointment. So are they wrong and the dissenters right?.

I think we all have a big part to play in this and if this continues we will be looking at a new manager and it will all start again and we will fail again.



For the minority boo boys this is all part of their alcohol laced weekend soap opera. In an age of instant media reaction and arm chair experts this is unlikely to change - and I take it with a pinch of salt. For the majority there is little appetite or patience for a long slog in the championship, and little acceptance of one either - because this is Aston Villa.

The Aston Villa side that were relegated utterly deserved their fate. Aston Villa Football Club, however, is the biggest club for a hundred miles with a glorious history and have no business being anywhere near the championship, let alone 13th. It is, in short, unacceptable. The fans will never except it and when push comes to shove neither will the owner.

I'm a firm believer that we're a good knowledgeable bunch and we'll back anyone in our famous yet much bedraggled shirt - we even applauded Dawkins - though you sign for us and pull on our colours and take our coin you have to accept everything that comes with it - and if you're not good enough and you don't honour our shirt then we're going to have you out of it because its not about the name on the back but the crest on the front. If the board and the management will not uphold that standard, then ultimately it is down to us to show the way.

To be fair to Steve Bruce he knows the game and how the business works and I've got a lot of time for him - but if he makes daft decisions like he did on Saturday and plays the likes of Bacuna and the team keep fluffing their lines in front of goal, then come November he will be gone, and with the money spent and the name above the door, rightly so.


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06 August 2017 23:29 Post ID: #1706841 - in reply to #1705657
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I only want Villa to win, and be promoted. That's it. All managers have to prove that they can do what's required. Bruce has had 10 months, 2 transfer windows and a load of dosh, and hasn't yet proved it. I hope he does, he may do, but I've yet to be convinced. Some progress yesterday, but as Xia said "disappointed that problems we thought we'd solved are still there".

I don't get the "we will fail if we change manager" line. Clubs change managers and many of them succeed by doing so. We have to see further progress, and soon.
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06 August 2017 23:59 Post ID: #1706846 - in reply to #1706823
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Villa_Grizzly - 6/8/2017 21:31



Gabby looked very sharp.


Oh man you cannot be serious?
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07 August 2017 07:36 Post ID: #1706856 - in reply to #1706839
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Villa_Grizzly - 6/8/2017 23:27
For the majority there is little appetite or patience for a long slog in the championship, and little acceptance of one either - because this is Aston Villa.



Trouble is, this is where we are and we have to deal with it and have to accept it. Just because we are Aston Villa unfortunately cannot change it.
Maybe i am a different generation to some but as I was always told sooner or later you just have to suck it up, deal with it and move on.

Do I like it - no way. Do I expect others to like it- no way. But this is football, not life and death. We are supposed to get enjoyment from it. Can't help but think that there is a certain culture and default mode of criticism amongst fans now.

Just have found the constant moaning from some really tiresome. Looking at the bigger picture, and there is. We are in a better place than we were this time last year. From the board to the team. Like it or not we are coming from a long way back. Again, something we have to accept and deal with.
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07 August 2017 08:57 Post ID: #1706858 - in reply to #1706856
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Melon Donkey - 7/8/2017 07:36

Villa_Grizzly - 6/8/2017 23:27
For the majority there is little appetite or patience for a long slog in the championship, and little acceptance of one either - because this is Aston Villa.



Trouble is, this is where we are and we have to deal with it and have to accept it. Just because we are Aston Villa unfortunately cannot change it.
Maybe i am a different generation to some but as I was always told sooner or later you just have to suck it up, deal with it and move on.

Do I like it - no way. Do I expect others to like it- no way. But this is football, not life and death. We are supposed to get enjoyment from it. Can't help but think that there is a certain culture and default mode of criticism amongst fans now.

Just have found the constant moaning from some really tiresome. Looking at the bigger picture, and there is. We are in a better place than we were this time last year. From the board to the team. Like it or not we are coming from a long way back. Again, something we have to accept and deal with.


Agree we are coming from a long way back.
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07 August 2017 10:39 Post ID: #1706875 - in reply to #1706841
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McParlandTheGreat - 6/8/2017 23:29

I only want Villa to win, and be promoted. That's it. All managers have to prove that they can do what's required. Bruce has had 10 months, 2 transfer windows and a load of dosh, and hasn't yet proved it. I hope he does, he may do, but I've yet to be convinced. Some progress yesterday, but as Xia said "disappointed that problems we thought we'd solved are still there".

I don't get the "we will fail if we change manager" line. Clubs change managers and many of them succeed by doing so. We have to see further progress, and soon.


Sometimes it does work big time:

Billy McNeill 22 Sep, 1986 08 May, 1987 - Graham Taylor 18 May, 1987 14 Jul, 1990

Jozef Venglos 22 Jul, 1990 28 May, 1991 - Ron Atkinson 07 Jul, 1991 10 Nov, 1994

But of course, our recent history is also littered with failures through poor decisions by Ellis, Lerner and the Doc picking RDM.

It's the most crucial of decisions at any club and if we could only get someone to give us some success with a promotion and perhaps some cup silverware later on once the club has further stabilized then he would become a hero at the Villa be that Bruce or whoever.

The infrastructure is in place, we have a wonderful ground, fantastic training facilities and a good owner plus experienced board and throw in a big fan base then this club is a managers dream job.

Steve Bruce knows that and has said the same in public so show us some success, Steve!?



Edited by Thomas Holte 7/8/2017 10:42
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07 August 2017 12:50 Post ID: #1706892 - in reply to #1705657
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For me this game should have been won. Yes whether your pro or anti Gabby as far as I am concerned he put in as good a 45 minutes as anyone on the pitch,after that looked jaded so did many others Whelan in particular I was little disappointed in if I am honest passing was off and really needed to be subbed after 70 mins having said that thought Bacuna was even worse. Steve Bruce plan B should have come into operation 10 minutes into the second half and as for bringing on Samba had to rub my eyes I thought dear lord Heskeys back. Better finishing from the team yes but want to see more from the manager Ime sure hes got it in his locker to sort this without resorting to desperation tactics. Its know use us winging about this player or that player being used I would guess the majority wanted to see Green on unfortunate he missed a sitter if he had used his chest would have bounced in instead of ducking to head it .
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07 August 2017 13:11 Post ID: #1706898 - in reply to #1705657
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There's a good level of experience in the ranks now and with Terry and Whelan seeing it on the pitch working in concert with Bruce's experience of getting out of this league we can expect to see some adjustments. Strong characters will have their say which is something we haven't had here for a long while. Roll on next match!
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07 August 2017 13:14 Post ID: #1706899 - in reply to #1706892
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Merlin128777 - 7/8/2017 12:50

For me this game should have been won. Yes whether your pro or anti Gabby as far as I am concerned he put in as good a 45 minutes as anyone on the pitch,after that looked jaded so did many others Whelan in particular I was little disappointed in if I am honest passing was off and really needed to be subbed after 70 mins having said that thought Bacuna was even worse. Steve Bruce plan B should have come into operation 10 minutes into the second half and as for bringing on Samba had to rub my eyes I thought dear lord Heskeys back. Better finishing from the team yes but want to see more from the manager Ime sure hes got it in his locker to sort this without resorting to desperation tactics. Its know use us winging about this player or that player being used I would guess the majority wanted to see Green on unfortunate he missed a sitter if he had used his chest would have bounced in instead of ducking to head it .


Agree with all of that. Gabby was decent for us, still a long way for redemption from the fans but he put in a decent performance. Bacuna was awful - we need to ring Reading back and ask if they still want him for £1.5m. Whelan was a bit sluggish, give him a few games he will hopefully improve. Samba upfront was genuinely embarrassing.
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07 August 2017 13:29 Post ID: #1706903 - in reply to #1705657
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Lot of common sense being reflected in this thread and also a lot of "Bruce must do this or he's out" - like everyone knows the Pope is a Catholic.

Firstly, and this is important - don't you think Bruce already knows this?
Secondly, knowing this, and being defensively minded, he has turned to the old pro's to keep him in the job - risk averse.

For me Bruce could have been more aggressive and looked towards the future: Bree for Hutton, Green for Bacuna & Doyle-Hayes/Davis for Agbonlahor. Also, don't know why Onomah was on the bench two minutes after joining the club. Of course I have know idea if it would have worked to Villa's benefit, but I just see Bruce as being always on the back foot, reacting - hence the late substitutions and the bizarre 89th minute one.

Certainly not the disastrous result some on here are suggesting and there are definite signs of improvement for all those willing to see beyond the draw. This was light years away from last years dross. Onwards and upwards and remember that a negative reaction, like we saw to Bacuna's substitution will percolate throughout the squad. Positive reinforcement is what is required and a focus on the things that went well.
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07 August 2017 13:34 Post ID: #1706905 - in reply to #1705657
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I'll prefer to take the positives out of yesterday, even though obviously disappointed not to beat a side as poor as Hull were.
Defence and keeper looked solid, and Hutton defended well. Especially in a league like this where you have to be capable of grinding out results week on week, building from the back is OK with me purely with the intention of getting out of this division. George Graham won enough trophies defending like hell and nicking a goal. Yes Bacuna was awful, as was Lansbury, but the rest put a shift in. Yes, Green would have been better to have shut his eyes and let it hit him in the face, shocking miss for any pro, regardless of age/experience BUT there was a noticeable lift in attitude and thrust when he came on, he made a positive difference. We still have the missing people in the centre that we need to be progressive. I agree with some of the posts above re Hogan. I thought he grafted and made some good runs, but the midfield passing was abysmal. I also thought Gabby was OK, not great, but he was certainly better than a few others that started and I saw a number of occasions where he chased back 50-60 yards to our penalty box to track runs from deep and back up the defence, so I can't knock his effort.
Disappointing, but there were some positives to take.
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07 August 2017 13:35 Post ID: #1706906 - in reply to #1705657
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Was good to see JT shouting orders at the men around him, thought he barely put a foot wrong for the entire game. If Brucey continues to struggle then JT should just tell him to have a lie down and he can do the team talks for the rest of the season.
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07 August 2017 15:10 Post ID: #1706911 - in reply to #1706756
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Villasince63 - 6/8/2017 17:18

There's a lot been said about the mentality at our club.. a losing mentality.
It's been leveled at the players but I think it includes the fans as well.

Like some on here I have a Villa mate who talks about Bruce getting the sack if after so many games were not this or that, and when he say's it there's like a gleam of excitement in his attitude, like he wants it to happen so in his own small minded way he can say, see I told you so, I was right e.t.c. ..

Why you want your manager after manager to fail just so you an claim to being some footballing expert like some of the football pundits on tv who've never managed a football team in their life.

Really get's on my nerves and we need to change !


I never want to criticise fans because I cant go myself but there is a little something to what you've said that I have believed for a long time.

I feel there is massive anxiety and negativity still within the club, is that the fans fault? No, but we are complicit. Its only natural that we'd get worried when were not doing well at home but its almost like its expected from us and that cascades from the stands. I am not sure there are many clubs who talk some of there players like we do as well. Surely nobody has had it worse than Westwood and this was a kid who tried his absolute best and still got slated.

Edit: I am no angel either when it comes to slating players but from memory its only Kozak who I truly despised (only in pure footballing terms).

Edited by CDX_EIRE 7/8/2017 15:17
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07 August 2017 23:03 Post ID: #1706953 - in reply to #1706911
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CDX_EIRE - 7/8/2017 15:10

Villasince63 - 6/8/2017 17:18

There's a lot been said about the mentality at our club.. a losing mentality.
It's been leveled at the players but I think it includes the fans as well.

Like some on here I have a Villa mate who talks about Bruce getting the sack if after so many games were not this or that, and when he say's it there's like a gleam of excitement in his attitude, like he wants it to happen so in his own small minded way he can say, see I told you so, I was right e.t.c. ..

Why you want your manager after manager to fail just so you an claim to being some footballing expert like some of the football pundits on tv who've never managed a football team in their life.

Really get's on my nerves and we need to change !


I never want to criticise fans because I cant go myself but there is a little something to what you've said that I have believed for a long time.

I feel there is massive anxiety and negativity still within the club, is that the fans fault? No, but we are complicit. Its only natural that we'd get worried when were not doing well at home but its almost like its expected from us and that cascades from the stands. I am not sure there are many clubs who talk some of there players like we do as well. Surely nobody has had it worse than Westwood and this was a kid who tried his absolute best and still got slated.

Edit: I am no angel either when it comes to slating players but from memory its only Kozak who I truly despised (only in pure footballing terms).


Over in the Samba up front thread the word 'embarrassing' has been mentioned regarding what happened in bringing him on. What was embarrassing for me was not that but the reception that Bacuna got when he was subbed. First game of the season, new signings playing and watching including one of the best defenders English football has seen in recent years who we should count ourselves lucky to be playing for us. What the hell must John Terry have thought.
THAT is embarrassing from the fans, not Samba playing upfront for a couple of minutes to try and win the game.

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08 August 2017 00:22 Post ID: #1706957 - in reply to #1705657
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The commentators mentioned it when hull scored that there was an air of anxiousness around villa park. A sense of inevitability that we'd concede again. I'm sick of that. I also don't see how it's still happening. I think hutton is the only player playing now for us that played in the relegation season. Gabby was outcasted, Amavi was injured and grealish was a impact sub...so why is there still that fear among players?! As soon as the opposition score villa seem to turn to rabbits in headlights and panic. See Shrewsbury preseason game for another example. What can be done to change this mentality?- buy players that are captains for other teams?- didn't work. Try a new managerial style? Tried young British manager with potential (sherwood) /young foreign manager (garde) /young Italian manager with experience of winning (RDM) / experienced older manager with history of promotion- yet none of them can change this. And while in asking rhetorical questions- why can we only play well for 1 half and not kill off teams with a bag full of goals. Last seasons run of games when conceding in the last 10 mins was abysmal! Work on it so it doesn't keep happening. Work on corners both attacking and defending. Work on shooting!!!
Deep breaths chieftoast. ....deep breaths.

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