Stoke is certainly going to be interesting on that score!

Yup.

But we live in hope.

A few goals from Gabby would be progress? Few shots even? Might help the team out?

But yup, what I've been saying also Glensider. But still hoping and praying, like you, that we are soon dazzled and shoot up the league.

I wouldn't expect too much of this season. It will continue to be stop and go, but I expect us to mature and gel enough to see us safely in lower mid table by May.

Next season I do expect us to push on, after some serious transfer business with the revenues generated by likes of Dunne, Ireland, Hutton, Warnock and probably Bent and Given leaving the club.

I think by next summer we should be two or three key signings away from being the 'fine side' we were labeled in another thread.

Edited by MiniCooper 6/12/2012 12:09

Agreed, survive this year, build more.

Then NO excuses. None. We have to be back in the top ten. HAVE TO BE

Wouldn't say we have turned the corner yet would have to be clear of the relegation zone to say that.But improved i would say yes i think people are saying no because they are just thinking of the latest games rather than the season of a whole.When you look at the Man U,Swansea,West Brom,Newcastle,Arsenal and Sunderland games on the balance we were the best team.The Reading game was always going to be difficult and the QPR game i bet Arry was more gutted than Lambert.

Yup agree with that completely, the debate on whether PL has changed too much too quick in our reliance on youth will be answered in May, but as long as we survive, that has to be the transition period - this season.

At the start of next season he'll have his core first XI and preferred subs, so then we add and improve because if all else fails, the only two left under contract from the old guard will be Bent and Hutton, and I'm not in a clamour to get rid of Given.

We are suffering this season because he's forced the transition through, so next season has to be tangible growth, cups taken seriously and at minimum a return to a top ten finish if we are honest with ourselves.

That return in 24 months will have made this worthwhile on the long term plan, we can't look to improve simply by 5 points a season following this campaign, we need the big jump back to the cusp of where we want to be.

Totally agree with you Mike. And quite frankly, with the money generated through players leaving and hopefully some additional funds provided by Lerner, PL should by next summer have molded this team into his own.

Also by then the likes of Lowton, Bennett, Vlaar, KEA, Holman and Benteke have played a full season of EPL football.

Our wage to turnover level in my mind is sorted now, those who's contracts end next summer are just jam and icing on the cake. The hard choices have been made, but we need it to work on the pitch for that to be seen.

I struggle to believe we now have any financial issues behind the scenes with everything that has been done over the past 2-3 years.

We've got the backroom sorted again now, the foundation is there, we need to see the foundation come together on the pitch now.

Yup the extra 12 months for the youngsters also means they aren't youngsters next season, the experience will be there, they'll be drilled in how Lambert wants them to play and how he expects them to react to situations and so on, so we need real growth, and sensible additions to improve the first XI further whilst also continuing to take punts on people Lambert thinks might be ready in 12 months time.

If this works we'll be in a much better shape all round by next summer, but that hinges on staying up regardless of how we do it.

Was saying that at the Sunderland match we all agreed that if we can possibly stay up this season then it could start to get really exciting next season.

As horrible as it sounds to say, this season is just survival and anything else is a bonus. Pull that off, invest sensibly in the summer and depending on who we sign and how they fit in, top ten is very achieveable although a Euro run might be a touch too soon.

We just can't go down, and whilst we aren't exactly fantastic, I think we have enough about us to be safe, even though it won't be particularly pretty at points.

I have ultimate faith in this new project and this season as people say is about surviving and building from there. Foundations are being laid for a positive future.

Sensible comments from a sensible individual (and a damned good looking one too).

Mike, my sentiments precisely. It's all about avoiding the drop. Relegation would rock this club back on its heels.

Simply cannot agree with your opening sentence Glen, and those who've met me would certainly put you straight lol

Yup, I think you've commented elsewhere that should the 'gulp' happen we are best sticking with Lambert and keeping this squad together in any case and I feel the same.

But even then, I don't think it's a risk we can entertain and assume we'd come straight back up and kick on from there.

For the development of the players and the financial rewards that will give us the bank balance to build a squad capable of looking for top 6 (as a start), taking each domestic cup seriously and then ultimately having a depth in numbers and talent that will also take 'any' European comp seriously, we simply have to maintain our position in this league for next term, even if that comes by goal difference.

Purely from a boardroom point of view as well, I think relegation would lose whatever goodwill may remain with Randy, and now he's got it right with Lambert and the vision, the last thing we would need (especially whilst trying to come back at the first attempt) would be further and real fan upset and then any takeover issues distracting the gaffer and the team.

And yup my thoughts Randy, in January though Lambert has to make it more comfortable with some experience, maybe just a 6 month contract or a year, and maybe not even obvious or well known names, just a couple of old heads who buy into the vision with their determination but can help calm the lads down at points during games.

I tend to agree Mike. There would definitely be a supporter backlash should the unthinkable happen, and sadly for Randy and the board, I think that they, rather than the manager and his staff, would be immediately in the supporters sights.

Promotion back to the premier league would be no easy task. It is extremely competitive down there, and merely by the very fact of who we are, we would be there to be shot at by the championship clubs, who would see beating us as quite a feather in their cap.

Avoiding the drop is an absolute must, which is why I firmly believe that Paul Lambert's efforts throughout the January transfer window will be absolutely vital in regards to our chances of remaining in the top flight.

A very important, indeed critical, few weeks.

I also think it would be a backlash that was so angry it would derail an instant return mate. You've always had your concerns, I know where the board have cocked up, but overall think they have been better for us than not.

But I'm already in a minority, especially after Eck (who we both expected more from compared to what he delivered) so I think that would be the final straw but I honestly don't think the best interests of our club are served by Randy walking...

He's learnt some very harsh lessons over the past few seasons, appointing Lambert to me shows he's learned from them. But relegation would a step too far for many.

However, I see the fans turning against the board not the manager, in those circumstances would be the right outlet, and certainly the most obvious outlet if we went down.

Fans already believe it was Randy's decision to sell the silverware whilst they ignore those players wanted out. They don't see our board - but Milner and Downing who cried like a baby - forced them to give us the extra year and capitalised on transfer fee.

Many fans think our austerity means Randy has been recouping his outlay because he's lost interest, whilst they ignore most of his loans are capped at 2013 and 2015, all he's got back is interest at below market rates which he's entitled to, but it has fuck all to do with our spending power.

We only have to look at the fact that Darren Bent is the current recipient of the 'it's a clause issue' 'the board want to cash in', whilst many ignore it's a player every season who those tags are thrown at and it's so clearly bullshit, but hey, shout the same crap often enough and it sticks.

Conspiracy over substance and it prevails.

Relegation would be the end for Randy, and in some ways with his errors it might be justified. But it would be the fake self congratulatory bullshit of fans that swung it.

And it's the worst thing that could happen.

You've said you don't see improvements, I do. But the fact remains we need to see more over the coming weeks and January is very important because we simply need to help these young lads in anyway we can.

Doesn't mean we sign elders to replace them, but we need one or two on the bench to bring on and calm the team and on the training pitch to teach them the tricks.

We are doing the right thing, but we could do it better.

Oh and as I've said before, and this is the difference between involving yourself in a forum like this or just reading a certain paper.

I still remember heading down on the bus where gentlemen of your generation Glen were discussing that it would still be 3 months before Houllier actually took charge because they'd read it in the Daily Fail.

My memory says Blackburn when Gabby was on fire, and did Heskey score - if he did the shock might be why I can't remember much - but he was taking charge pretty soon after that but when you only trust one outlet who go for hits, this is why the BS propogates.

And unfortunately we have too much BS surrounding us at the moment with the conspiracy freaks.