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One In, One Out Again At Villa?

With Wes Hollohan news dominating the newswires, we are being tentatively linked with Chelsea's winger Gael Kakuta, and Shay Given has talked about extending his loan spell with Middlesbrough until the end of the season.

Villa already have two long term loans on our books in the name of Ryan Bertrand and Grant Holt, but regulations do allow us to have a further two short term loans on our books.

As ever for the transfer window, there is no real substance to the Kakuta link, for the 22 year old has spent this season out on loan at Vitesse Arnhem and it's believed that Chelsea now wish to send him out on loan to a Premiership team in order to give him real experience in this league.

A short term deal, I'm not sure if that would limit it to a month, or whether it could be done on an emergency basis and extended for a maximum of 93 days, but really a winger? Does Marc Albrighton need to put in a bad performance to be used two games in a row?

As for our elder statesman Given, he told a number of press that he'd be delighted to stay at Boro for the remainder of the campaign, but for that to happen a deal would have to be done prior to the end of the transfer window.

'I have been delighted to come here and play after 10 months of not being involved at Aston Villa. I'm really enjoying playing here and being part of the group. Will I stay? Well at the minute I don't know. My deal is up at the end of February and Jason Steele could be back by then so they could send me packing. The rules are that the deal has to be done by the end of January if I'm to stay for the rest of the season. That's something that will have to be talked about in the next week.'

Manager Aitor Karanka has already made it abundantly clear he would like the former Republic of Ireland international to stay at the club, having joked he'd sign him for the next three seasons if he could, and it makes no sense whatsoever for him to come back and not even be sat on the substitutes bench.

Given money is such an issue at the club, allowing him to remain out with Boro would also save us some wouldn't it - and that seems to be what it's all about.

Update:

I've just seen rumour as well. Apparently we are interested in taking Barcelona striker Jean Marie Dongou on loan for the rest of the campaign.

The 18 year old is a product of their youth system and he's a Cameroon U20 interestinal, and many in Spain liken him to Eto'o and some may remember him from the NextGen series where he finished as top scorer - not being rude but I don't, I was too busy watching our lads!

No quotes or anything, but at least it makes a change from Hoolahan. Yes I know, another loan and another striker!

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The Journalist

Writer: Mike Field Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday January 23 2014

Time: 2:02PM

Your Comments

Smashing, would be great, I love the idea of Villa being a feeder club for the big clubs in the league.... :(
The Fear
All in favour of loans IF there is an option to buy, otherwise they are a bit pointless. Oh well, beggars cant be choosers.
simont123
Sometimes though fear they do make sense... I'm in favour of them IF they add something to the team. Makes sense for everyone concerned if Given stays at boro for a bit longer- he's quality and needs to b playing. If it saves us some dosh too then great :)
thorpyuk
http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/23/aston-villa-close-in-on-loan-deal-for-barcelona-wonderkid-jean-marie-dongou-4274603/
olofthegreat
I thought we already were, Fear.
thevillaboy
Simont, I don't think the loan of Robbie Keane was pointless ! In fact I think we'd have been relagated that season without him ,which may or may not have been a good thing !!
AstonBilla
AstonBilla relegation is not a good thing. What a silly thing to say.
jsmccue
True Aston! Keane did save our bacon and I would have taken him back last Jan too. I kind of meant loaning players who are up and coming, we give them vital experience, their value goes above what we can afford and then they bugger off at the end of the year. Loaning experienced players (if the player is up for giving 100%) can be a smart move, just ask Everton fans.
simont123
I'm not a great lover of loans tbh. I agree with Simont, that is, loans are ok if there is an option to buy. It seems pointless toning them up for our opposition ala Kyle Walker.
Pride of Lions
current situation any good player playing for us is a bonus. irrelevant of loan or not, end of the season could be the difference between relegation or survival, thank you mr lerner, for this fantastic business model you have created at aston villa.
Ali Arab
It would be nice if Lerner put up some money in the summer to simply buy a few good players not getting a chance at top 4 clubs. Bertrand, Lescott, Richards, Milner etc. English and a point to prove mostly
mefromhere
I don't mind a loan, as long as they can improve the team in the time they are here, otherwise yes it would be a waste of time. See Deulofeu at Everton for example, who has grabbed some important goals. I don't see what Kakuta would add to the team though, however I probably would prefer him in on the left as opposed to shoot-on-sight-Tonev. Would prefer getting Ince in though, but that's a bit of over-optimistic thinking.
villahippo
Be nice mefromhere if Lerner sold our club to a REAL ambitious owner, not one that will not pay decent wages for decent quality players, nah we need a proper interested owner to rebuild this club back up, can't wait to see the back of Lerner how he has degraded our club! UTV!
CLIVETHEVILLAN
More forwards ? no midfielders linked oh ffks I give up.
Merlin128777
We can not have kakuta on loan he is owned by chelsea we are only aloud 2 uk based loans(Bertrand,Holt). We can only loan players from abroad now.
hightrinity
hightrinity - doesn't that maximum of 2 only apply to long-term deals? So as Holt and Bertrand are on long-term deals, we could have 2 more (to a maximum of 4) domestic short-term deals?
VillaHippo
don't rules state that you can only loan 1 player from a club?
MrZeus
Section V, rules 7-10 of this ....you're welcome....... http://www.premierleague.com/content/dam/premierleague/site-content/News/publications/handbooks/premier-league-handbook-2013-14.pdf
malacaxeta
No rule about "foreign players" at all..however V7.5 and V7.6 appear to contradict each other (in that V7.6 doesn't actually make sense to normal people, like me). That will have been due to Ferguson's jackboot on the throat of Richard Scudamore.
malacaxeta
Paper talk today that the bid was just 1 million for Hoolahan. Still hoping for a shock big money move on deadline day!
mefromhere
Normal people like who??? Lol.
Villan444
Only joking, you're special mate!!!
Villan444
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior
malacaxeta
So...in English, for the normal people: Four transfers between first and last fixture round eg Aug to May. No more than one in from any club. anywhere (EPL or otherwise) unless a goalie or the first transfer becomes permanent at which stage that club could send you another temp (not sure how Ryan Bertrand, for example, can become permanent between now and June as it would be "outside the window"..maybe only applies if the loan starts in August/Sept and then becomes permanent in the following January window- or if that is incorrect. we can make it permanent whenever ?! That doesn't sound right What a ******** game of soldiers) So we still have two open slots,. which can be from anyone except Chelski or Wigan (unless a goalie, or we somehow manage to refute time and space and buy Holt or Bertrand in the next four months) Then we have rule V7.6 which makes no *****en sense whatsoever. "At the same time". WTF. "Time" not in the list of definitions (Section A). Yet, anyway.
malacaxeta
OK - V7.3 allows you to make the transfer permanent at any time during the loan. Whoopee.
malacaxeta
4 players total but only 2 players at any one time. Look at stoke they had Steven Ireland and Oussama Assaidi on loan from liverpool but they wanted John Guidetti from Man City so had to make the Steven Ireland deal permanent.
hightrinity
And we would need to make Bertrand permenant to get Kakuta just like Cardiff need to make Fabio permenant to get Zaha
mefromhere
***** me - they could have made it clearer. Should have been written together with V7.5 as a single rule. Suggest an example or a powerpoint next time. There are other problems with the text though...eg "Temporary Transfer shall be permitted: V.6.1. between Clubs; and V.6.2. between a Club and a club in membership of the Football League, the Football Conference, the Northern Premier League, the Isthmian League and the Southern League." (Note: "club" is defined "an association football club not in membership of the League" which I would take as, any FC operating financially anywhere in the world) So...V.6.2 seems to be saying to me, no "Loans" (we have "Temporary Transfers" that incur "Loan Fees") frpm any club outside of England....eg Barcelona, LA Galaxy. There is no other section in this document that treats temps from non-English clubs differently.
malacaxeta
I should add here - within the definition of "club" (bad term!) "association football" is not itself defined, so I can't see how that could be construed as 'English football' only. Especially given the restrictions of V.6.2 which would then not be necessary. Ergo "club" could be from anywhere. Also - V.7.4 states " the minimum period of a Temporary Transfer shall be the period between 2 consecutive Transfer Windows" So how does Keane on a two-monther from the US fit into that scenario?? The only way I can see from this document that this can happen is V.4 ! "Outside a Transfer Window the Board in its absolute discretion may....... grant an application and, if thought fit, impose conditions by which the Club making the application and the player shall be bound. "
malacaxeta
To conclude - if there are, essentially, no restrictions on temps coming in from 'abroad' (other than perhaps the generic limit on non-local registrations) why bother to limit domestic temps at all ?? I can understand the limit on temps in from one specific club, but other than that, how are these limits levelling the playing field if there are really (in a global game) hardly any limits at all. particularly when there are no limits on the Transf(orm)erors, so Chelsea for example can double up on red, black and half the numbers on the table as well..>Ryan Bertrand already took two points off Liverpool.
malacaxeta
Postscript - here are the sum total for the rules for international loans: (FIFA Regs on Status & Transfers - ART 10 Loan of professionals "1. A professional may be loaned to another club on the basis of a written agreement between him and the clubs concerned. Any such loan is subject to the same rules as apply to the transfer of players, including the provisions on training compensation and the solidarity mechanism. 2. Subject to article 5 paragraph 3, the minimum loan period shall be the time between two registration periods. 3. The club that has accepted a player on a loan basis is not entitled to transfer him to a third club without the written authorisation of the club that released the player on loan and the player concerned." Yep. That's all she wrote. So to recap - the FA's contract (what it is, essentially) is garbage and would never get signed by anyone in the grown up corporate world due to its terrible authoring, mountain of contradictions and uncertain outcomes and the fact that there's scarcely more cheese than holes. The FIFA document is a sick joke. This goes some way to explain why Chelsea for example, have already this Season, successfully completed two transfers (notably, Willian) that ran roughshod over the 75pc/70th regulations - because if you can afford the right lawyers the loopholes are ready and waiting to drive your blue and white Hummer clear on through the other side.
malacaxeta
I'm glad you read all that Mala, appreciate the effort. I guess this is the Watford issue from last season and their loans. Didn't read much, but I know Holloway wasn't alone in pointing out it was daft especially as Watford seemed to take a lot of signings from the other club their owner owned.

And yes, Stoke made Ireland permanent to free up the loan spot didn't they, so further loans for us are ridiculous unless Bertrand or Holt become officially ours.
mike_field
 

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