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#19 Flag Issue Blows Up!?

Well this is a strange one. Always seems to be something going on with Villa where it looks like an us v them!

The Club, following 9 complaints, have banned the One Stan Petrov flag from games because it obstructs fans views.

The flag is unfurled in the 19th minute.

Obviously, the Club do put up Stan and #19 on the big screens during the minutes applause, but this flag will now be stopped from being unfurled.

I find it strange the fans have complained, however I`ve not heard any quotes from any of these fans as to why they felt compelled to do so. I`d have thought IF it is only a minute the flag is out, then a compromise could be found between those fans and the Brigadia who have organised the banner? Maybe it could be kept right in the corner on the left making it away from the 9? I don`t sit there, I don`t know is the simple fact of it. However, I do wonder how sanitised football will have to become.

However, on the flipside, the Club are put in a funny position where they would have to act and I`ve spoken to the Club today following our forum thread: Click Here.

They said they have tried to get in contact with the group but haven`t had a call back. Maybe the best step now is for them to arrange to go back and meet with the Club, see what can be done, not only for this flag but also for what I believe their aims to be, which is to help bring the atmosphere back to Villa Park.

Brian Doogan (media spokesman) has been on WM this morning saying the motive of the fans with the banner is 'really great` but the club has to cater for all the fans and those who have their view obstructed also need to be looked after. He did also stress how much great support the fans (and the club/players/former players and staff) have given massive support.

He also said that the banner hasn't been banned, they could show it before or after the game. I'm sure if they get in touch with the club this issue could be sorted pretty well?

Bit of a battle over nothing maybe? Or...?!

If you are one of the fans who have complained, feel free to get in touch (I would obviously not put your name out) or a member of Brigadia if you have something to say, just drop me a line astonvilla@vitalfootball.co.uk




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The Journalist

Writer: J P Fear Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday September 11 2012

Time: 11:00AM

Your Comments

ONE FUDGING MINUTE IN SUPPORT OF OUR CLUB CAPTAIN FFS!!!!! Sorry about the caps but really.......really!
holte ender 1969
Lets replace it with the Lambert out banner then :-)
holte ender 1969
I agree with your first one holte, 100%. But you've lost me on your second post...........
Pride of Lions
People are entitled to complain but they are not automatically entitled to have that complaint upheld. Suck it up.
BOF
Lambert out? are you sure? Not his fault Bent can't score even though he's labelled "prolific" :S
LeFondle18
The main point is football fans not being able to support in their own ground (despite shelling out the cash on tickets). It's increasingly evident that clubs don't trust there fans and have little reagrd or knowledge of fan culture. If the banner was offensive (then fare enough), if it was blocking views throughout the game (then move it!), but it's just surfed during the duration of the applause. What happens when kill-joys start complaining about the huge Villa flag that the club organise? Will live in a culture where people will complain about anything, the club should behave like a football club and tell them, 'Well, you're at a football match and in the Holte End'.
myoldmansaid
Lol Holte Ender... It is shocking the things people complain about... I don't we know the full story behind it... but it looks like the Villa PR depeartment have shot them selves in the foot... again...
WorldClassAV
Also, it's the first game since the Brigada moved to L8. I think the real motive of these complaints is 9 people being a little shocked by their sudden appearance. Other people have said they have been regulars in L8 in the Holte for years and the Everton game was the best atmosphere in that section they've seen.
myoldmansaid
I USED TO HAVE AN 'ELLIS OUT' BANNER WHICH THEY ALWAYS USED TO MAKE ME TAKE DOWN WHEN OUR BOARDS WERE USED FOR ADVERTISING. THERE'S NO REAL EXCUSE NOW WE DONT HAVE THEM AT VILLA.
leelindsay
To be fair, one caller to WM said he was one who had complained and that it was about so much more than that, it was the abuse etc thrown at them as well. I don't know, I don't sit there, but always 2 sides to a story. Also, the Club have tried to get in contact with them, the Club are easy to get in touch with, why won't they at least talk to them BEFORE this blows up in the media, as this now has? Surely you talk first, see where the land lies THEN expose things that are unfair, NO?
The Fear
Brigada have spoken to the club at the start, when they were called and told they weren't allowed to bring the flag/banner to the next game. Also the Brigada were told they were going to be monitored at the next game. Obviously Brian @ Villa hasn't been informed about this... You remember Fabrice..it had to go to the media for the club to finally exercise common sense.
myoldmansaid
As I said before, reading between the lines, I think the real issue here is a group of fans are a bit disturbed by a noisy, all-singing group of fans suddenly turning up in their part of the ground. Which kind of sums up the sad sanitised state of affairs of football. Suddenly, the vocal supporter is an outcast in their own stadium!
myoldmansaid
MOMS, are you a member of Brigada? because you don't seem to be willing to accept there may be other issues involved with the complaints. I don't sit in L8, so I don't know what has happened but usually in cases like this the truth is somewhere between the two extremes.
notthedougellisstand
No, I'm not a member. But if you read my last comment, I don't think this is just about the banner (that's a matter of principle for supporters). I'm sure it's a case of some fans telling the Brigada to sssh or sit down, and the Brigada telling them where to put that idea, and it all rolls on from there. Safe standing areas would solve all this handbags at dawn conflict, but obviously that's a while off yet.
myoldmansaid
(sorry, meant to say, the above was posted by tmg in the forum)
The Fear
The Radio WM phone in is about 100 minutes in on: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/p00xrfgf
The Fear
PF our CEO is the one trying to bang the drum (along with FSF who have been at it for years) to try to bring back safe standing. This isn't an isolated club issue like some of you always try to portray. The one fan who rang in was one who had complained, if we aren't around there, we don't know. Would be good to hear from some of those with the flag as well. Always more than one side to an argument but as said, again, this has been blown into the press to the benefit of none of us. The club / fans etc have all been brilliant re: Stan. My point remains myoldmansaid, you don't talk for the group and nor do I, but if the Club tried to get in contact recently, they could have got back in touch, even if it was to just re-affirm they are being told they can't do what they want to (and therefore decide themselves whether to carry on or not) As you know, the Fabrice argument is done and dusted, both MF and me / you talked via email on that one. Some saying the fans who have complained should move without knowing their side and what is going on (I repeat, I don't know) is out of order as well.
The Fear
FOOTBALL needs to decide what it wants. I don't think it wants what many of us want, that said, I'm not totally sure the younger generation could stomach what we did in the 80's etc! LOL

And yes, I've had personal experience of this stuff trying to do what I think fans do and being told to stop and didn't take to it kindly either. A complaint re: me banging the boardings and making a noise at football.

I refused to stop but actually felt a right pillock being 'told off' and did tell them if they wanted me out, they'd be carrying me out!

Might interest a few that the Club got in contact with me and apologised and agreed the person who complained was out of order as were the stewards asking me (they told me, then backed down and asked) to stop making the noise.

If the Club had said they were right and I should stop making the noise (I mostly have now as since then it felt contrived) I'd have, with no fuss (ahem!) have hung up my claret and blue specs and stopped going.

Sounds to me, again, I don't fully know, I could be wrong, that the Brigadia need to find the right place to do what they are attempting atmosphere wise (again, I know how hard it is to try to do anything like that after the bells doo dah) and can't understand why they aren't at the back of the holte upper trying to get things going.
The Fear
MOMS has about summed it up. Brigadia 1874 were based in L1 of the Holte last season. This season they moved en masse to L8 to make the group more visible and more heard. I am not a member, but their sole aim is to improve the atmosphere at the games. They have no allegiance to managers or players, they do not ever boo players or managers. It is to their credit that they played no part in the campaign to rid us of the bloke that used to be our manager. They just want positive support of all things claret and blue. They support the shirt and for that should be backed to the hilt. Notthedougellisstand by saying the truth in this debate is somewhere in the middle is pure guesswork on your behalf. The very simple facts are this, this very vocal group wants to surf the Petrov banner on the 19th minute and 9 Villa fans have complained. They complained when the flag was surfed and were told where to stick their complaints (probably not the wisest move, but understandable when you are showing suport to our Captain). The club is in an awkward position as Brigadia 1874 have worked closely with them and expressed their goals to the club. The club have reacted positively to the group and are keen on all ideas to improve the atmosphere at Villa Park. There is no middle ground here. It is just a very sad reflection on some supporters who want to watch a game in silence and complain should people around them try to help encourage our team. The very sad thing is that it is the quiet ones who make the loudest noise when things are not going well. My view is that if you want to be entertained both on the pitch and on the terraces then get over to L8 and join the fun. The more noise the merrier. Up the Villa. The 19th minute.
voiceoftheholte
Ban the flag, is the fluffy PR catch to make it an issue...I'm more interested in the other points raised that aren't being addressed - but it doesn't seem like they will.
mike_field
But you are also using guesswork, the one lad was on WM today and said the flag issue was the very least of his worries in his complaint. We don't know, it is all speculation unless you sit there or are involved. But they could carry on with dialogue with the club (and the fans to be fair, not many of us know anything about them, they don't post about it apart from on their own site as far as I can see .. again, no issue if that is the way they want to do things, totally their shout obv) They also seem misplaced? Surely Holte Upper is the right place?

IF only those who boooooo booooo could use the same volume in singing, we'd not have any problems at all. English fans these days are *****e up and down these fine lands!
The Fear
I'm all for bringing back atmosphere and supporting the team. Providing it's done good humoured and with wit. Personally I don't want to be surrounded by *****ed up yobs so drunk they don't even know who is playing or even care. Yep I'm all for making a noise but if you have to fill yourself with beer to pluck up the "courage" to shout then don't sit by me. I like to be with people you can have a rational conversation with not some moron so out of his tree he doesn't even know what is going on. Atmosphere yes great stuff , but is that really what they are all about or is it a bit deeper ?
villan57
What does one want from a footie match? Banana chucking? racist, misogynist and homophobic abuse? violence? How about families, prawn sandwich eaters and kids with painted faces? Borussia Dortmund have adopted ultra-culture without the bigotry and hate. German football in general is supposed to be terrific for the modern fan. Villa could do worse than try and emulate the Bundesliga. What has happened to the 'safe standing' initiative that was discussed not-that-long-ago?
VillaWillRiseAgain
Still working on safe standing with FSF BUT we can't do anything without the go ahead of the authorities and they haven't moved yet. Villa have simply promised to work with FSF to push the issue and would happily run the trial if permission were given...but sadly it's something we can't do just because we want to. And I doubt permission will be forthcoming whilst the bleaters continue about Hillsborough and other tragedies that were typically over reacted to. Funny how standing isn't a problem in lower leagues though eh.
mike_field
http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/news/astonvillaexpressinterestinsafestanding
mike_field
Hopefully we won't need ANYONE to create an atmosphere this season as the players and manager will.
Villan444
VOTH, do you sit in L8? If the answer is no, then you are guessing just the same as the rest of us. Ultimately, the comment about Brigada 1874 sitting near the back of the Holte Upper makes much more sense. I don't understand why they have chosen to sit in the Lower. Historically since the redevelopment of the stand, the Holte Upper has made all the noise and started the singing. I used to sit up there from the mid 90s til the mid 00s but moved to the North Lower due to cost.
notthedougellisstand
Pride.....my second post was meant to be ironic and defo not aimed at our new messiah. Apologies as it must be the fickle in me trying to get out :-)
holte ender 1969
it's only for one minute right? so it's not a massive deal, probably one that could be let slide considering the meaning behind it, although i can understand the minor annoyance of not being able to see! I wonder if any of them have ever left a game a couple of minutes early, considering they're obviously very concerned about not being able to see this particular minute of the game!
Callum_ws
ALL fans support Petrov to the hilt - but equally I can never understand fans who walk out before the final whistle - they might miss the one good moment of a game. As for leaving when it is still on a knife-edge - incomprehensible. But if we win 1 0 with a goal in the 19th minute, and as a fan your view of that is taken away, I can understand that would annoy too - every minute is vital, and this "it is only for 1 minute" should not mean blotting out someone's view. Is this too simple - cut the flag in half and rejoin it to say "One Stan" on one line - everyone can see the flag, and everyone can see the match! I know there are other issues, but this seems an easy answer on the banner.
stennyvilla
Bit of a storm in a teacup surely the fans can sort this out between themselves there all on the same side!. Dont lose much sleep over people leaving early Stenny the ones that worry me are the ones that stay and Boo the team and manager off. Be doing every one a favour if they DID leave early instead of doing that.
Merlin128777
Eck out
voiceoftheholte
 

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