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Roberto Martinez? No Thank You!

C.Bick says: Roberto Martinez? No thank you.

Since Eck's sacking for the past few days the club has been several managers to take over and more heavily with Paul Lambert and Roberto Martinez in particular. Now I'm a big fan of Lambert and we'll get to that later but for know I want to give my opinion as to why 'El Judas' would be a poor choice for manager at Aston Villa.

If we look back at Martinez' time at Swansea, the success he achieved there is highly impressive to say the least. After taking control of Swansea in 2006, Martinez almost lead the team to a playoff birth in his first year at the club before losing to Blackpool 6-3 on the final day of the season. Roberto didn't let this disappointment get the better of him however, as he lead Swansea a League One title in only his second year at the club and as a manager. Upon entrance to the Championship, it looked as if Martinez would achieve back to back promotions after losing just 4 games out of 30, but his ambition got the better of him and he was off to Wigan for the 2009-10 season.

This is where things start to take a turn. Martinez came to Wigan after the club had just come off an extremely successful season finishing 11th place under Steve Bruce. This was the 2nd best finish the club had ever achieved and it was clear that Martinez had big shoes to fill. More impressive was the fact than Wigan achieved this feat having lost Wilson Palacios to Tottenham and (wait for it) EMILE HESKEY!!! to you know who in January. Wigan also suffered the loss off another pair of key players in Antonio Valencia and Lee Cattermole in July to Man U and Sunderland alike. I think it is safe to say that Martinez inherited an all but gutted squad.

The loss of the key players in the summer took a toll on Wigan's season for that year. Despite the signings of quality players such as Mohammed Diame, Hugo Rodallega, James McArthur, and Jordi Gomez, they fought relegation for the entirety of the year only staying up via a run of good form towards the end of the season. Wigan finished 16th with 36 points and a -42 goal difference; the worst in the league.

For the 2010/11 campaign, Martinez made additional key signings such as Victor Moses, Antolin Alcaraz, Gary Caldwell, and Franco Di Santo. He also set his sights on a top-ten finish which he made very public to the fanbase. Despite Martinez's summer spending and ambitious season objectives, Wigan were once again thrown into a relegation dog fight and were bottom of the table for much of the campaign. However, a great run of wins towards the end of the season saw Wigan once again surviving until next season. Wigan ended the campaign in 16th once again with 42 points. Despite being linked with other jobs, *ahem*, Martinez chose to be loyal to Wigan and signed a new contract keeping him at the club for another three years.

The 2011/12 season saw the signings of players such as Shaun Moloney, David Jones, Ali Al-Habsi. Conor Sammon, and Jean Beausejour in January. Yet once again, Martinez's side found themselves in the bottom three for a large portion of the season. However, towards the end of the season, yes you guessed it, Roberto somehow managed to win enough games in the last few months to finish 15th in the league with 43 points, Martinez's highest league finish and points tally since arriving at the club.

Now that I've given you a brief background to Martinez's career so far, I can now tell you why this is far from the right the man to take over the Claret and Blue. If you've been paying attention you've noticed a pattern in Martinez's time at Wigan. This pattern, however, is not an upwards one, but rather a pattern that stays grossly level. In addition to finishing in the bottom 5 for his entire time at Wigan, Martinez has managed to keep his team in the bottom three for the majority of their season, to then somehow get them winning at just the right time to be able to barely survive just for the same thing to happen the next season. Clearly not the marks of a top manager. The fact is that if Martinez had kept his team within 14-17th place the majority of his 3 seasons, and produced the same results as he has, he would have nowhere near the amount of praise and sympathy the media gives him at the moment. The reality is that the press love managers who provide good stories for their blogs and tabloids and therefore they can rarely see the big picture.

When I look at Martinez's record at Wigan, I see over 25 signings in a span of 3 years and 3 bottom 5 finishes to show for it. This is course cancels out those arguments that we got so often with defenders of McDraw saying, 'he hasn't gotten to form his own squad yet' If my information is correct there are less than 5 players currently part of Wigan that were not signed by Roberto Martinez. Two of them are keepers. Wow.

Another pattern we can clearly see throughout Martinez's entire career was that the only time seems to be able to motivate his players is when an achievable and clear goal has been presented to his team. With Swansea, promotion seemed an achievable goal and he therefore had success with promotion from League One and probably promotion from the championship had he stayed with Swansea. With Wigan, it has obviously been survival. When he set his goal as a top ten finish, it was unclear to his team on how exactly they were to achieve this goal. Yes, win football matches of course but there is of course always more to it. With a survival goal, his team could clearly see what the goal was and how to achieve it. It wasn't an overwhelming task since they knew they could accomplish what they were asked. As a result, their confidence soars.

That is exactly what has been missing from Roberto's Wigan side all along. They went into the season thinking they weren't good enough. The goal seemed too distant for Martinez's men to be able to fuel their passion and drive. And that right there is the difference between what makes a great manager, and a great tactician. It's not about how 'attractive' the football is that a team is putting forth, or even what general style you choose to implement within your squad. What makes a great manager is someone who can get his players to give him their absolute best performance they can give him, week in, week out. That is what separates the Alex Fergusons from the Andre Villas Boas's, it's what keeps the David Moyes's pushing for the Champions League, far away up the table from the Alex McLeishs praying for a draw.

We are at a period at Aston Villa where the club should not be in the business of taking risks like what we are in danger of doing. Villa fans need a team that can make them proud to be fans of the greatest club on Earth. They need a team that will tell them that their money hasn't gone to waste, a team that looks like they don't want to be anywhere else on a Saturday at 3pm than at Villa Park fighting for glory in front of the Holte End. We want a manager who cares about the club almost as much as we do, and won't jump ship* at the first offer of a bigger job. THAT, gents, is why for now, Roberto Martinez is the wrong man for Aston Villa Football Club.

Thanks for reading. UTV

*Since I know I'll get comments about this I'll clarify things. Martinez left Swansea as soon as he knew Whelan wanted him at Wigan. This after declaring he would not leave Swansea unless he was 'forced out'. Swansea fans called him 'El Judas' after that and rightly so. Bit like Downing, eh? He probably stayed with Wigan last year because he knew Villa didn't have squat to spend in the summer and figured he could land a better job the next year. Not if Villa and Liverpool read this though! :-P

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The Journalist

Writer: C.Bick Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Wednesday May 16 2012

Time: 9:23AM

Your Comments

Excellent article. Basically what I've been saying, but with more meat on the bones. These facts can only cement the reason why Martinez is not good enough for Villa. Lambert is No1 for me.
Pride of Lions
Total agreement. Martinez is not good enough for Aston Villa, even with the praise of Wigan's loud mouthed owner.
I have my doubts over him too. He has stagnated at Wigan, never really tearing up any trees. We have lived this season on the edge, I would not want that again and there is nothing that tells me we would be any better off with him? Pretty football maybe? Somehow I don't think MON will be giving us a shining reference either so Lambert could be a no no too. I don't know, now the relief has sunk in it all seems a mess still.
miss polite
I totally agree with you and always said I didn't want Martinez at Villa. I don't want another season like this stressed to the limit
Sorry, what makes Lambert so much better then? One season of Prem football?! I think Martinez plays great football, did wonders with what he had (not much) at Wigan and most importantly he's young, hungry and has an infectious, energetic personality...something sorely missing at Villa since Gregory. I'd welcome him with open arms. He'd be a breath of fresh air.
Agree completely with this summary. I don't want to be in a negative frame of mind at the moment, so I'm seeing this as constructive instead. Roberto appears to be a nice chap but he wouldn't be my choice. I can think of worse though.
Let's get Martinez or Lambert, bring in Moses, Matt Jarvis and maybe Scott Dann or Roger Johnson.. 1 or 2 more players = 30mill. We could be top 4 if the team play attacking football. I actually can't wait for next season =]
Stagnated at Wigan??? Are you mad? this is a club that has to sprint to stand still. just keeping them in the Prem and competetive is a massive achievement in itself. what I do believe is that he perhaps privately regrets not taking your job last summer and I believe he has probably taken wigan as far as he can and needs a bigger task, whether in England or abroad.
At last !! a sensible article on Martinez ! ...... he isn't good enough or ready yet for the challenge ....... Lambert is.
Im not so sure lambert would be so much better as he plays the same football as MON ? I actually enjoyed the MON era except for the last half a season but many fans were so disappointed with him, his tactics and stubbornness. perhaps Lambert is not such a control freak as his idol though ?
miss polite
My criteria for selection of the new manager is as follows. 1. Someone the majority of fans will get behind. 2. Someone who can work well with and develop young players. 3. Someone who would have the respect of any senior pros left. 4. Someone who would really want the job. 5. Someone young enough to stay at the club for a long time if things go well. I am less concerned with having years of management experience. All of the current fan favourites for the job, (Martinez, Rodgers, Lambert), had little management experience before there current jobs, and none in the premier league. Therefore I suggest three names. Gordon Cowans, Stuart Pearce, or Ole Gunnar Solskjær. I would be delighted if any one of these were given the job.
he stayed at wigan cause he is a wigan legend <3
As long as they get us playing football & winning more than drawing I don't really care if it's Martinez, Lambeth., Rogers, AVB, Poyet,Holloway etc Don't want McCarthy,Megson et al . Just someone to get the blood pulsing & as Blitz says looking forward to next season instead of dreading it
got as many wins in the last 9 games as you lot did all year!
He's ready for a big big club, well that's what fat whelan thinks of him, and if he keeps saying it enough is compo price will keep going up, but not from us.
Re stagnated... Why does he/his team remain in the bottom 3 for the whole of the season if he is that good ? How come they have to leave it until the end of the season to come good ? Is he not inspiring/motivating his team throughout the season to secure their place earlier in the premiership for the following season ? you could be right Oxford spur but having spent this season with our head in our hands, this needs to be so right !!!!
miss polite
Martinez would fit the bill perfectly. Martinez ,yes please. The perfect manager doesn`t exist im afraid.
legolad no ones knocking Wigan They are a well run club with a decent bunch of fans. Under discussion is whether Martinez is really a hotshot or not , I havnt checked the stats but werent you mid-table under Bruce ?. As for Martinez will continue to sit on the fence. Not sure if he is doing wonders at Wigan or failing to progress them from good relegation fighters each season.Pardew and Newcastle are a good example of what can be done with little money compared to otthers
To be honest i think taking a "chance" on Martinez would pay dividends, I fully understand the fear of failure amongst many, based on his 3 seasons at Wigan.....however who is to say Lamberts "second season syndrome" might not hit if appointed at Wigan..... My biggest concern with the appointement of relatively raw talent manager wise is their ability to overthrow powerful over paid prima donnas in that dressing room, and be able to enforce their own thinking, plans, ideas, regeneration etc. GH tried (yes he made loads of faux pas) but he had identified the main useless culprits, and even with his experience failed in the shake up that was required. It really is a tough decision and task (Look at AVB at Chelski) tried to take on the powerbase and got right royally stuffed. Neither Martinez or Lambert has experience of managing the "Billy big Spuds" we have in our squad.
Sorry meant to read Lambert if appointed at Villa
He has worked wonders for us merlin. He has had to reduce the wage bill that bruce did us with trying to turn us into a club who doesn't run on a loss every season only staying above board by whelan bank rolling us (not a good business plan!) to a self sustaining club whilst keeping us in the premier league. You have to remember we are the smallest team in the league so just keeping us up every year is a massive acheivement.
Martinez is not good for villa??? remind me where you finished in the league again??? a step down if you ask me
Mike Leigh
Lambert is different to MON in many ways but most importantly he has a plan B ........ Brendon Rogers is the dark horse I think, would love to see him give it a go.
Point taken on Wigans size and funding legolad. I am just wondering if he could carry over the brilliant form wigan showed at the end of the season to next season,he wouldnt be the first manager to jump ship and find the grass wasnt greener thinking of Hodgson to Liverpool and Villas Boas to Chelsea. Err Mike you begin to sound like a wba fan when you put finishing above Villa as the be all and end all if that was the best I could hope for in a season I would open my wrists lol.
Forgot Martinez because BLITZ you really want Scott Dann and Roger Johnson at Villa? Are you frickin serious?!?!?! Johnson was a big reason why Wolves were relegated, turning up to training drunk and abysmal performance would you want that on Villa? Go ask a Blackburn fan also about Scott Dann they will tell you that he was a terrible signing, did not play well at all...Weird that both of them took two teams down, we don't have Mcnegative anymore Blitz so raise your expectations a little mate.
And not even gonna read the article if im honest, Martinez has a wonderful approach to the game, done great for Wigan with no funds and a tiny average squad...They finished 5 points below us, we are a much much much bigger club than Wigan, and before these DUMB, IGNORANT fans come along saying who would come to Villa after finishing where we have, look at Tottenham, before Redknapp they finished bottom half and looked dreadful, they were then backed in the transfer window and back up the table...We are a sleeping giant, with the right manager and backing we will be up the table in no time, small timers like Wigan who cannot fill their ground cannot comment.
No you dont want Martinez, he is no good for Villa, we will keep him thank you!
P.Avfc, Er I think you should look at the table, wigan are 5 points above Villa, poor manager don't think about him........
Simple ... Rodgers .
StuT can you actually read? Since when did i say Martinez was a poor manager, that answers it, no you can't read. You are saying one season finishing above us makes you a bigger club? Such ignorant fans, you average about 100 fans a game mate...We only need the right appointment with the backing of the board and we will be back fighting for european places in no time...Do people not realise big clubs at the top have had hard times in the past, no they just totally ignore it and think Villa will be down the bottom for the rest of existence. 2 years time we will be back up there and small timers like Wigan and the rest of the Midlands clubs will be quiet.
I don't think Martinez would be a disasterous signing for Villa. We have to remember what most of us are still drinking heavily trying to forget and that was McLeish's horror show. Anything (almost anything McCarthy) is a huge step forward for the club after last season and anyone who wants to play football on the ground not hit it as far and high as possible is welcome from me.
p.Avfc chill out. StuT was merely pointing out that in your post you claimed Wigan finished 5 points below us when in fact they finished 5 above us, and his points about Martinez being poor are light hearted as he clearly would love to keep him at Wigan. He also said himself above that Wigan are the smallest team in the prem so I doubt that he is claiming they are bigger than us. I think most people would agree that martinez plays great football and I'd welcome him at VP with open arms. I would love to know why his teams don't start playing until the last few games of the season, bit like Moyes and Everton not being able to play before xmas weird really.
AV, thanks and yes you are right, I could tell you bet don't want to encourage you in any way, Villa are always welcome at Wigan
Utter Tosh....he has had to buy all of those players with a fraction of the money that all of the players he was replacing were sold for. With virtually nothing to offer them for wages. Compare what he has had to work with the other clubs who have come up and gone back down in recent times and it is a pittance. Plus he has improved Wigan's points tally each year even after losing his best players each year, for me that is extremely impressive. And to put you right David Moyes has actually had champions league football for Everton, though unfortunately they got the hardest draw possible and didn't make the group stage. AVB also motivated his players to a undefeated season at Porto pretty well didn't he...?!
King Makoun II
AVbornandbred, Guess i should be the one to read my comments then! I did mean to say Wigan finished 5 points above us, but still doesn't make them bigger after one poor season.
P.Avfc, I did not say Wigan were a bigger club, must be someone else?I know Villa are a big club, last time I was there was in the sixties. good luck with your search.
C.bick, I think that although you're trying to point out Martinez's weak points, you've actually pointed out his strengths. He's only 42 and got 10 years on Eck and already much better. As the club says, they want a manager to grow with the club and think that he'd be great for us. The only misgiving which was well pointed out is that his teams only seem to start winning when there's something to play for and/or things are desperate. We want a manager who wants to win everything and can motivate himself and others 110% of the time. Fergie is 25 years and counting. It's a way of life.
To an outsider 2 clear impressions come from this article: 1) The writer doesnt have an in-depth enough knowledge of the goings on at Wigan. 2) The writer hasnt come to terms enough with the changes at Villa. Let me start with point 2. Villa is a club that now needs to be run to a budget. This will stop Villa from challenging realistically for a champions league spot. 7th is the best you guys can realistically hope for. Therefore your managerial targets should be adjusted accordingly. This "not good enough for Villa" is a tad arrogant. Secondly, Wigan. If you look at league position then fine. The fact is Martinez has totally changed the club. He's cut wages, got rid of the hangers on, transformed the way the club is set up from the kid-level right up. It's taken a long time to bring results but we feel its happened now and we feel that if the squad is kept together we'll push on next season. The reality is we're Wigan and already the better players we have are looking for big money elsewhere. In such circumstances just staying in the prem is an achievement.
Let''s be clear no one is saying Martinez is a bad manager. On the contrary, I think he has done quite well at Wigan given what he has to spend. But he's been good, not great. If you compare Paul Lambert's career to Martinez's you'll see that Lambert has improved as a manager with every new campaign. Back to back promotions with Norwich and then coming within an inch of a top ten finish his first year in the premier league only losing out by goal difference? A pretty insane achievement considering having less money to spend than Martinez and having NO premier league experience. Not to mention the fact that his squad packed less quality than almost every team below him besides maybe Bolton. If you actually read the article, you would have noticed that I said nothing about Martinez's lack of experience as a contributing factor to why he isn't good for Villa since I don't consider this to be of great importance when signing a manager. And for the people who commented without reading whatever your saying really holds no relevance since your not by definition actually debating my views. Again I am in no way trying to degrade Martinez as a manager because I think he has a chance to be great. For now though, Villa needs a sustainable manager with a virtual guarantee of success. Paul Lambert, I believe, could provide that and more.
russialatic - It may seem an arogant stance to some and I am in no way trying to discredit Wigan I think you are a good club who hasn't deserved the struggles you've had to endure but the reailty is Villa are just a much bigger club. In addition to being the first professional team in the UK, Villa have enjoyed success through numerous league and FA cups throughout the years and several first division titles including being runner-up to Man U in the premier league. Wigan's highest finish in the premier league ever is I believe 10th? Again not trying to degrade Wigan especially as you are the youngest club in the premier league and still have your best years ahead of you. Just trying to make you understand the difference in size between our clubs and that Villa can do much better for their next appointment. The very fact that managers like AVB and Rafa Benitez are being linked with Villa still makes clear the size and reputation of the club. So if Martinez finished in the top 10-12 next year then he'll have proved me wrong but unfortunately I don't see that happening.
I was not going to even bother commenting on this deluded post lets just hope Faulkner is not as deluded as the writer Lambert spends one season in the league and this poster claims his better than Martinez how many managers have flunked it in their first season? Its probably one of Whelan's club reps writing rubbish on Villas blogs.
Shane Villains
Fear you should be ashamed of yourself
Shane Villains
Then again Faulkner is the same guy who recommended Mclueless to Lerner if Lambert is appointed prepare for the Grant Holts and Morison's of this world at Villa. grafting and kick and rush even Hodgson know better than taking Holt to the Euros. But i bet he would have included Victor Moses if he he had been english enough said. And who is this writer i have never read anything from them before Mclueless was fired??
Shane Villains
Shane Villains - Back to back promotions and a 12th place finish with a squad that is unarguably inferior to Wigan? Someone is deluded here sir but it is not me. Also Whelan has stated he doesn't give a crap whether Martinez stays or goes so that bit about his reps is both deluded and uninformed.
Russialatic - I'm not being arrogant at all, rather I think you are doing your own club down a little. Wigan have been an established premier league club for many years now, and prior to Martinez's arrival they enjoyed regular mid-table finishes. I accept what you say about selling the best players, but I still think you are underachieving - surely you would have expected to finish above Norwich and Swansea, for example? Every season Martinez seems to say he is targeting a top 10 finish, by Christmas you are in the bottom two, and then everybody praises Martinez when he keeps you up with a game or two to go.
Mark from Dudley
Excellent article, by the way.
Mark from Dudley
Have I missed something Shane Villains why should I be ashamed of myself? I didn't write it, it is someones opinion, he's researched it, a lot are agreeing. Again, not sure but have I missed something? I don't feel ashamed at all, I love the different article submissions on this site and network, that is why I wanted to set up a fans network in the first place and we are the biggest one going (independently funded as well) I'm proud not ashamed! ;o)
The Fear
Must admit, I'd be intrigued and perfectly happy with him as manager, think the Latic comments are right, it is a job and a half to keep them up and he's done that. He also set Swansea on the right road and I think might well like a longish term project here.
The Fear
Bring back Houllier...
Have to agree with the article - Wigan were in a relatively stable position when Martinez took over from Potato-head, with a top 10 finish. From there it has just been downhill for Martinez. I hear all the arguments about slashing budgets, and changing the club culture, but what worries me is can Martinez come in and do the same thing at Villa without a mid-table cushion to start from? We are in a proper mess at the moment, and whoever comes in needs to hit the ground running - not next March, which could be too late for us.
have asked wigan ed for his opinion , he rates Martinez highly, not sure where they were at with Bruce to be fair!
The Fear
I fear we are too late for Martinez now. If he doesnt take the Liverplop job I will be stunned. Shame, because I believed he was the right guy last year and was perfect for this year. People who post digs at Wigan really show their ignorance. Bruce had them mid table but going bust and that is crucial to understanding both Wigan's position and our own. All clubs outside the Sky6 (and we all know who they are) are facing up to the change in the transfer market. ie, if you have a decent player one season the Sky6 will take him off you next season. therefore there is no point buying each others cast offs for £6/7million. All clubs have to grow there own or find unknown gems and develop them for the Sky6 just to stay in existance. That is the job Martinez did at Wigan and still kept them in the Prem. Villa are treading the same path Wigan have trod and but for a minor miracle we would have gone down. Bolton have gone and are now following suit in 'restructuring' their finances in other words selling anyone with a saleable value. This is how all Prem clubs will be over the next few seasons except the mega rich. So Martinez has gone leaving Lambert as the only name in the frame for me as I doubt Rodgers will leave Swansea.
When you loose players like Bent, it hurts the team, Wigan started the season short of three players who were injured in some cup comp in south america, before you know it we are loosing games we should have won, Wigan refused to play 2 star players that refused to sign a new contract, but all was well when the team responded to Martinez and we played better without them, in fact brilliant. Go for Raffa, he is big enough for any team in the prem.
Now that Dalglish is gone the bindippers will get Martinez and Whelan will get his wish for his manager to go to (in his eyes) a really big club. Almost as insulting as Holloway suggesting Charlie Adam was too good for Villa (see how Adam's season went, lol)
clbick3 your all post is a joke reason why i call u deluded listen not once did i see you write any of long winded rubbish when Eck was here but now we finally got rid of him you appear on hear slanting Martinez you obviously disgruntled fan because you cannot be a villan. For you to compare lambert's to Martinez with manipulated fictious nonsense. Firstly when did Wigan get promoted? Why did Steve Bruce leave? Do you even know what players went out sold by Whelan on Martinez his arrival there? You just manipulating the truth ebcause you are a Whelan PR or a disgruntled Swansea fan. I could show more holes into your article delusional disgruntled article but its pointless because your agenda is obvious. The fact that Fear let you use this villa site to do it is what his disappointing. Where are all the links to all the disgruntled gibberish you on about in the article??? What i cannot stand is disgruntled people like you popping out of no where and trying to use Villa blogs for your rubbish. Where was you and your views when Mcleish was ripping the soul out of Villa since you talk about you love Villa so much??
Shane Villains
maybe you could be Lamberts agent if you are you lack class and clearly deluded
Shane Villains
Shane Villains - I'm quite confused as to why you seem so offended by my article. Really nothing to get so upset about I've simply given my opinion and tried my best to defend it in the comments. All this just creates healthy debate and is really nothing to get worked up over. Also it would be really difficult for me to be a Whelan PR man since I don't actually live in the UK but in the U.S. All of the stats I presented in the article are completely factual and you can look them up for yourself if you wish. I've contributed a total of 4 articles to the sight including this one over the past 3 months and you can view them as follows: -- -- One of them criticizes McLeish. Actually just finished one the other day and I'm surprised you didn't notice it. Also after reading your most recent comment it makes me think you didn't actually read the full article. For starters I never said anything about Wigan getting promoted and the reasons for Steve Bruce's exit are completely irrelevant in making the point of the article. He left because he was offered a better job at Sunderland and that was really it. And please don't bring JP into this it's completely unnecessary and he has been extremely kind to let fans contribute to his blog regularly. Good luck to you Shane Villains and thanks for commenting.
Firstly Fear does do a great job but on this occasion i disagree with him its my opinion and he knows why. listen clbick3 stop trying to be patronizing by playing the all nice guy routine now your article does not reflect it. Reason am so hard on you is because you seem intelligent enough to write a better article than this one sided disgruntled crap then i would debate with you properly. You article is just poisonous its not balanced like you claim. Its sounds more disgruntled and poisonous. I love debate but even i would not write a all piece manipulating the truth the way you did on my reservations on Lambert reason i keep it in comments and forums. And if i did i would fully expect to be asked for links to all the poisonous statements i may have made so all can see. Mentioning the state of the club when Martinez got there is very relevant. Bruce left to join his boyhood club Newcastle's bitter rivals Sunderland for a very good reason it was not just for a better contract. No one knew better than Bruce that the Sunderland move could potentially wreck his career, but he did with hindsight now he must have known Whelan planned on selling half of the team which he did on Martinez his arrival. You do not mention the fact that Bruce had the team completely playing in a different style to Martinez. Bruce likes that grafting style similar to managers like Mon and Lambert. So Martinez contend with changing the all playing style and mentality in the players which Bruce had instilled in them just like Houllier when he first arrived here, and Villa Boas had to at Chelsea. If i wrote a whole piece on Lambert and claimed it to be balanced i would make sure the article reflects it and would have no qualms in supplying links. Bottom line remains Faulkner the same guy who brought us Mcleish is leading the shortlist again so i will not be surprised if we see downgraded Mon part 2 Lambert at Villa who i doubt will never finish ahead of Mon in the premiership..
Shane Villains
And how you finish the piece 'Not if Villa and Liverpool read this though! really? He done alot for Swansea beyond just promoting them the owners did not begrudge him moving on to the prem which i do agree on maybe was a season too early but unlike a Ince he managed to win sections of Wigan fans over they knew what he was trying to do give them good attractive football which they lacked most games under Bruce. The man stayed loyal at Wigan he could so have easily came to us. All your talk he knew he could have landed a better job how? where? We were last season the only bigger club than Wigan interested in him. No big clubs were in for him even i then had my reservations on him i felt he still needed another season at Wigan. You talk of Moyes but when has Moyes ever beat the top clubs consecutively in one season in his all entire stay at Everton? You article is too deluded and disgruntled. Do you think even the great Fergie/Mourinho would manage to get those Wigan players to consecutively beat top clubs after so many losses? I will tell you now Fergie coined the grafting defensive football you get from most of those scottish managers like Moyes he is the master at it reason none of them can ever get the better of him. And he likes it that way Moyes would never beat or finish ahead of Fergie even if they had the same calibre of players at their disposal. There is a reason why both Everton and manure improve in the 2nd half of the season. Martinez managed to beat a strong united team in their business end of the season in fact Wigan out played them check the stats. Moyes did manage a draw after manure out played everton so their grafting counter attack only managed a draw. There is a reason why Fergie like to point out the Everton game as the game the lost the title at which is BS in my eyes that was just another way for him to give the credit to another of his Scottish mates who can never beat his united. Everton drew while Wigan took all 3 think about it.
Shane Villains
I don't know why Shane, this site is all about opinions, as is football, no one is deluded, no one needs to be ashamed, no one are fools. Just people have different views. I'm a bit baffled as to why you are so angry on this article and in the forum. We won't all agree on managers pro or anti, that is football.
The Fear
yeahhhhhh we are at least arguing about football and different views we all hold instead of 90% crying because Mcleish is our manager. Dont think I could ever get as angry as watching us last season made me. lol :) UTV and good luck to Wigan except when you play us of course.
Fear one main thing he has no links and second the manner in which he slandered Martinez claiming he was being balanced was shameless. How he ends the all article is so unnecessary its almost disturbing sounds like something out of an ex girlfriends revenge book. But you right on that Fear he is entitled to his opinion this is football and thats what blogs are for reason i chose to give my penny's worth on it. He was a bit too over board in his distortion of the facts.
Shane Villains
Shane I apprici
Going by your grammar, or lack of it Shane, I think the main reason you are so offended by the article is that you didn't understand it.
Shane I think I can understand the gripes you have with what I wrote and I'm glad your formally debating me now but I really am finding it annoying that you keep accusing me of distorting the facts. Every bit of information in this article was thoroughly researched. If you find something that's isn't please point it out. I'm sorry I didn't supply links to the information but I'm not writing a school paper I'm writing on a blog and I dare you to find a contributor to this site who's actually cited their article? And the whole thing about Moyes, Ferguson, etc. was just to make a point. I'll grant you Moyes was kind of a bad example seeing as Everton only began doing well towards the end of the season. And as jonah said mate I don't think you read the article thoroughly or you probably wouldn't be saying alot of the things you are.
clbick3 i put up links on my last article its not hard
Shane Villains

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