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Down Down Deeper & Down? Au Revoir

For the fact I`ve got a bit of a mouth on me and all that...!... I have never been one for knee jerk reactions to managers and despite having serious reservations about our former manager Martin O`Neill my comment was that he`d earnt the right for another season with two Wembley trips and 6, 6, 6...

With that said... I would like today to see two words from Gerard Houllier ... a manager I`ve done nothing but support and stick up for in these forums since he arrived.

The two words have to be au revoir.

I can no longer support 'that`... I was there yesterday, the best part of the day was the train journey up and the crack with the lads from Vital and also a great bunch I had a chat and a laugh with in one of the pubs before the game (they insisted I`d said I wanted Sam Allardyce following Steve Wade`s article and ripped me a new one! LOL... Honest lads, I don`t want him here... ! LOL)

I can now see why French football is in such a shambles and why they exited the World Cup so quickly if Houllier was amongst those at the top of the tree 'sorting them out`.

If he stays... and as said, this seems totally alien to be saying this about a manager who hasn`t really even started in some ways and knee jerk reactions are never the best but I do fear our new song to run out to before games would need to be:

I had a Spurs mate text me the other day saying 'I didn`t realise you were that bad`.... The Manchester City fans we spoke to after the game in the pub were also shocked and said that they hadn`t even played that well and that if they had turned it on, they thought it could have been eight.

I`d gone up there intending to have a laugh, I said that I was going to spend the game looking away from the pitch and that I`d invent my own match report no matter what happened on it. Sadly I don`t feel like doing that as we were so inept yesterday that joking about it doesn`t seem at all appropriate.

The away fans are always - I think - the most loyal and die hard of fans and yet some were leaving before half time, I didn`t blame them at all, a few of my mates also wanted out, we were at the back of the stand and two just sat down and had a chat, no view of the game at all. I begged them to stay, they did, it went from bad to worse and I had to asses, did I want to walk out for the first time I can remember (apart from Man Utd game years back when I wanted to see England play in the Rugby World Cup ... something very different that walking in disgust) and stick with my mates and the crack, or did I want to do what I always do. Stay and support Villa.

I left....

My first game was 1977...I've done about 20 years season ticket wise I think (or the old student voucher scheme) with just a 2 year (ish) break after my brain op (the Villa didn't do anything to help in those days, not like now) I have never walked out of a game just after half time in my life. Now I know some (voiceoftheholte, come on man!!!!) will say that is wrong and you stay and support but I do support, I was supporting, I was there, I love Villa as much as the next man but when the players don`t care, the manager has no clue and we are back to the dark days of David O`dearme (who in his defence had no money to spend, was at the end of a pretty tired club board wise + had a lot of injuries etc) I just couldn`t see my way to ditch my mates and stay. Support is a two way street and the more I read the comments from players (Pires the other day, sorry, that was pathetic... he should have a look at our fine sportsmen over in Australia missing their family and friends but retaining the Ashes... that is proper sporting 'sacrifice`) and the more I see the haunted expressionless face of our current manager, the deader I feel.

Maybe years of fighting have finally caught up with the Villa`s claret and blue army, the so near and yet so far feeling has been replaced with a totally sinking feeling and I think as a fan base we are pretty loyal, stand by our team well and all we want is to see pride in the shirt.

Yesterday there was no pride. I`d not be able to do a proper match report if I tried, I could certainly not rate any of the players but as a team including the manager, they`d get a zero.

A young lad coming out at the same time as us said the players should give their weeks wages to charity.

So how about it Villa, manager, coaches, players... give your wages to Acorns to apologise to the fans. They would make good use of it and it would go some way to show that you really do care.

If this continues we are in a battle royale to stay up. I kept saying no way would we get sucked into a relegation battle but look at our fixtures ....

Chelsea away...
Sunderland at Villa Park (massive game)
Blues away
Man City at home
Wigan away (another massive game)
Man Utd away

And then what could be a crunch month.... Feb with three who will be there or there abouts battle wise... Fulham, Blackpool and Blackburn.

Gulp.

Our latest poll, suggested by hill678 asks if Houllier should go.... When I sent it I said no way... my vote is different today. Fickle? No. Gutted? Yes

And so who in?

Thankfully, not my job, but trust me lads, not Big Sam... unless it was a straight choice between him and Houllier and no one else! (Good to meet you all yesterday, you were gentlemen and scholars!)

Vital F1 Prediction League - Join now for Spain

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Writer: J P Fear

Date:Wednesday December 29 2010

Time: 9:42AM

Your Comments

He has got to go JF. Feel really sorry for anyone who travelled north yesterday. What a shambles.

jake findlay

never known a manager lose the fans so quickly, I started the 'you've got to laugh my lord' song yesterday but to be fair, none of us were laughing. When you start taking the st michael out of your own team you know you are in trouble really don't you? I remember Glensider talking about similar at one of our other away games. He's obviously not got the dressing room and he's not got the fans, it will take a very big decision now to save this season.

The Fear

haha, classic football fan fickleness. You see it on our site all the time with people saying redknapp needs to go. I bet all the people who were after O'neils head have now changed there tune, mabye if you'd have given hu=im better support he might not have thought ***** you lot, and left. You brought it all on yourselfs with your constant booing at home games etc, the grass aint always greener.

liamyid

Can Randy afford to bin him financially, would he have to pay the full 8 million out to him?

jake findlay

The overwhelming majority of villa fans feel exactly the same as you do Fear I'm sure. Most of us didn't particularly want him appointed but were prepared to give the bloke the benefit of the doubt. Well, we've done that and it aint working, so au revoir.

jonah

Houllier has no interest in Villa. He's back in the premiership to remind everyone that he used to be manager at Liverpool, and it was him not Benitez that really won the European Cup for them but himself. It was a shocking appointment.

Pancho Villan

I feel sorry for sll those who travelled up - at let I only made a short journey from Hindley Green (near Wigan). I was in the same camp as my esteemed fellow campaigner and Villa stalwart Mr Fear but even I the patient old senile git have decided enough is enough and for the first time in 49 years of supporting Villa I have decided this manager does not deserve any more time. He reminds me so much of Turner who was lost at a big club all the way up from Shrewsbury Town FC!

nazvfc

Sad to read this man .... but i'm confident you guys will stay up. Hope the next half of the season is far better for you'll ( but only after the Cheslea match - i support Chelsea :-) ) ... you're too good a club to be fighting a relegation battle.

ZeeNut

We are about to discover no Villa boss can afford to lose the backing of The Fear!

The Real Neil

I didn't see any of yesterday's game so I can't pass comment but against Spuds, despite not having the craft to break down a 7 man defence, I saw plenty of effort and passion. Can things really have changed so much from game to game or is it just a problem with away games or perhaps the proverbial bad day at the office? I'm not making excuses, just genuinely asking questions.

Villan Of The North

Agree entirely Fear. VOTN, think Liverpool game when all the players looked like they had only just met, all scared to death of something? and with zero confidence or ideas. Gabby was so lonely up front and the defence was a joke and seemed to be playing zonal marking!!!!

Villan444

iv just been told that a lot of people see Villa as the "lucky to be premiership" Wimbledon of old, how embarrasing.......Still Villa till i die

Astonian Villan

Get him ouy NOW and give it to KEV MaC till the end of the season, the players have respect for Kev and will at least give it 100% for him....SIMPLES.......

golfshot68

Well, I'm going to swim against the flow. Changing the manager will create more problems than it might solve, and I don't want us to join the ranks of clubs that ditch managers whenever the fans start moaning. It's never done the likes of Newcastle any good and it won't be good for us either. There have been signs in some of the games that we're going to play good football and we've seen a lot of the youngsters finally come through. There's no doubt we've had a bunch of depressing performances but we're only half way through the season and the transfer window's not even open yet. The league is very tight and there's very little between a dozen teams. People are too quick to push the panic button and start agitating for change, and then becoming part of the problem themselves. I say Houllier stays, he's given time to make some changes, and we'll see the benefits. Or we create more uncertainty with no guarantee that any other coach will do a better job. I say taking the long view is what will do us the most good.

Freelancelot

Thanks Zeenut--heartfelt and persuasive article JPF. To be honest I've hardly bothered following the Villa lately. Have been seriously uninterested at the alleged infighting, seeming lack of spark and general apathy. I caught Ballotelli's first goal on Jeff Stelling etc. Thought it might be a cricket score and was genuingly surprised it was only 4-0. What a bunch of Panto Villans. I feel sorry for the youngsters (Albrighton, Delph etc) who have the talent and the desire but are surrounded by wasters like Carew and Ireland. Maybe, Houllier is the wrong man for the job. However RL appointed him and it's hard to see how a new manager can have any impact at this point in the season. Internazionale sacked Benitez after six months and replaced him with Leonardo. Villa aren't going to be able to attract comparable talent. Maybe a firefighter like Terry Venables until the end of the season will keep us up? After that a homegrown manager like Gareth Southgate or Nigel Clough could be a long term solution for the club. Some of us mentioned one or both of those names after MON left but were ridiculed in some quarters. Hate to say I told you so. RL is ace but doesn't really seem to know about modern football. Nor should he, given he's relatively new to the game. He should get some decent football men as advisers though. Houllier is like Sven, Beckham, (Brazilian) Ronaldo and Raul. Yesterdays man! at least those other-once gifted- football men have recognised their time has gone and have had the dignity to move to clubs suitable to their current ability. Currently, these 'big names' are respectively plying their trade in Leicester, LA, Sao Paolo and Gelsenkirchen. As has been observed by some, football (like life) doesn't stop for anyone, it just keeps going. Yesterdays heroes are replaced by new ones. The trick is to know when to stop or at least realise you're no longer what you once were. Come in M. Houllier your time is up!!

VillaWillRiseAgain

the players are the ones under performing on the pitch and inexperience and low confidence cost us yesterday i mean as soon as lichaj gave away the penalty all heads dropped when that happens what can GH do? we had no real prem experiance quality on bench petrov, reo, cuellar, downing were well off the pace and agbonlahor tried but had no support atall, we never looked like scoring, the above players are our senior players and were all poor on the day. we need fresh blood playerwise. lerner will not sack GH so get behind him we will be ok

clarkamus

I'd usually be agreeing and with you Freelancelot but yesterday was a game too far and you don't even need ITK stuff to see he hasn't got the dressing room at all, in fact it is more split now than I've seen it since DOL. Sometimes things just don't work and this is one of those times. If he stays I'd love to see him ram the words down our throats but.... Yesterday actually felt like an insult to the fans and that is seriously bad.

Agree clarkamus and said similar yesterday that there is no professional pride from the players but the manager clearly isn't managing, he's upset half of them and talked in the press about them and as someone retored to me, if you don't like your boss, do you work as hard for him? I couldn't argue sadly.

The Fear

Remind me again of your opinion on O'Neill, Fear. "Hoof ball', 'boring', 'no rotation', 'should get the kids in'. Well, you've had all of those, you should be ecstatic. All of you who wanted MON out where are you now? Come on. Don't be shy. I supported MON right up to the day he left. I wish to god he was still here. Gigi? Well, we are stuck with him. I don't approve of changing managers like you change your shirt. But dear oh dear. As the Chinese proverb has it, 'Be careful what you wish for. It might come true.'

chocolate teapot

We are in a sh**t load of trouble! We are the worst performing PL Club today, by far......I decided to give GH a chance but like alot of VILLA fans have given up. Yesterday and the game against Spurs at home on Boxing day it looked like no one on the pitch had a clue, let alone GH and his crew on the sidelines! Pires is a joke.....i think my grandfather moves around faster than him, awful! Carew doesn´t care enough to bother playing, Ireland and Dunne have been awful, Friedel is done, we miss L.Young and Ashley Young for sure but drastic changes need to be made in january. If nothing happens we will be playing Championship football next year.

icelandvilla

Can you really see GH either resigning ot RL sacking him?? I just don't think it will happen.

AMS78

Keep Houllier and you will get relegated,its quite simple, if you are insistent of playing the kids, surely the answer was to retain Kevin MacDonald and have an older and supposedly wiser head in Houllier as DoF or similar, but keep him away from the team!!! I was amazed at his appointment when it was announced and unless something is dont very quickly or he pulls off a couple of masterstrokes in Jan, you are in real danger and much of this is down to his inability to motivate as much as his bemusing team selections. There are some excellent British managers out there or ones that have experience of success in the English game and surely the time has come for a change and acceptance that you made a terrible mistake.

oxfordspur

MoN was well supported by the Villa fans.All managers get grief at some stage cause football fans are fickle including myself.Fergie,Wenger,McLeish,Moyes have gotten booed at some stage ovger the last couple of years.I think Spurs got a bad reception for not winning a few months ago.Villa fans are not to blame for any of this,we were getting worse as last season went on,pre season we looked awful.MoN could see what was coming and he legged it.Shame on him.

Pking

Mcallister out steve clarke in, he will stiffen up the defence and IMO could help save us from the drop with a few january purchases then we can consider the managers position in the summer, if we fire GH now it will cost a bomb, money i would rather see spent on a player on new years day or thereafter.

jj184

Houllier out now, in Coyle, Moyes or Jol, would even take Big Sam ahead of the french muppet.

astonsteve

what about the fat spanish waiter??? lol

jj184

I would like to join Chocolate Teapot and gloat but this is serious now and not even Fantasy Football can distract me from my worry. I think a lot of the people holding out for a Houllier miracle have turned this week and that has been the most upsetting thing as in my heart as much as I preferred O'Neill, I wanted Houllier to do well despite thinking he wasn't the best appointment. These are dark times but I am more proud of being a villa fan than ever before at the moment. Spurs game was close to capacity, the away fans have been a credit to the club and I just saw the "lets pretend we scored a goal" footage from Anfield and nearly died laughing. I still think a strong, organised, man manager is the solution until May: I would have any of Big Sam, Houghton, Pulis, Curbishley or that Martin O'Neill chap, he hasn't got a club!? And I really don't think we ought to trust Hou with any transfer funds.

simonbigron

No denying that yesterdays game was one of the worst performances I have ever witnessed by a Villa team but as mentioned by others before this is a team that was bought by a manager to play hoof ball and do not seem able to adpt to the passing game that GH seems to want them to play. Hopefully January sees us purchase some additions that allow us to play football. I cannot see that KM would have done any better as when he was in charge for a number of games the team did not perform any better, in fact I quite expected us to be routed by City given the team attitude of late. I never in my worst nightmares thought that we would be played off the park by Newcastle.

ZA-Villan

FAO Villa will rise again: Ireland wasn't even playing yesterday so how can he be even partly to blame for the shambles that was Villa at Manchester City? I have been watching football for more years than I care to remember and Villa's performance yesterday was worse than some of the Primary kids I used to coach!! Villa will never get anywhere with Houlier and Mc Allister. As someone else has said Houlier has only come back to 'remind' people that he is still around. His man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Just read Robbie Fowler's autobiography and you will see what I mean. Houlier out and someone who cares about football, and Villa in particular, brought in. But someone needs to find out why Dunnie has been playing so poorly this season when last season he was so good. Is he carrying an injurythat needs to be sorted? Is he disillusioned with the powers that be? He doesn't go from being so good to his form this season. As you can tell from my user name I am a huge Dunnie supporter. :-)

Dunnie for ever

Im in for a houllier out!!!! Im sorry but im fed up of payin thru the nose to watch dross!!! I dont mind losing! But to lose so badly with no heart or hunger! These players are good solid top 6 players and were playin bottom 2 standard if that! Houllier has to go but we (the fans) have to show it! Demonstrations are needed after games! It did lfc well! Get it organised fear!

colavfc

No i cant see lerner and his silly little puppet faulkner sacking him! Thats why we as fans need to raise our voices and put pressure on the idiots! There getting away too lightly after games- a quick boo and ppl go home! The whole holte shud have a sit in and demonstrate! Get some publicity like lfc did!

colavfc

Fellas, give him one transfer window at least. The only thing i dislike is the speed of change, it has rocked us, but let us be honest, he inherited an awkward scenario after o'neill did pre-season and kmac the first few games, he also inherited some expensive fringe players and the Steven Ireland scenario. He hasn't lost the dressing room, he has clearly told a few to do one. We are well and truly in the first phase of new team dynamics, these being; Storm, Form, Norm, Perform. We are in a storm, we have blooded the kids, some high paid prima donnas have let us down, Dunne and Carew to name two. At least give him a transfer window. We'll lose at Chelsea - just expect it and be realistic when you look at what is going on.

VillainYorks

Well seeing as nobody else has done it yet, hello Chocolate Teapot *waves*. I'M one of the one's that wanted MON out and I'm not shy in saying that either. Let me just say well done on supporting the man who got us to sixth three years running, and could've done better if he'd rotated his squad and bought better players but was too egotistical to do so. Well done on backing the man who spent over £120m but recouped just over £30m in four years by overspending on average players (yes, that £10m player Curtis Davies who is now lighting up world football by plying his trade in Leicester). Congrats on agreeing with the theory that once you've fallen out with a player, they should never be played again so that you have half a team playing out of position, running them all into the ground even more than they were already. And as for Marc Albrighton? Well, let's just say that you wouldn't have seen him playing in the first team any time soon. It's clear to anybody who watched Villa regularly that MON had to go, but I won't say any more on the timing of his exit as it's been done to death. Rather than dwell on what has been, I'd rather concern myself with current affairs. No, we're not doing well enough but I'm not entirely sure if this should spell the end of GH's reign. As a previous poster has already said, he is trying to teach a different style of football to a team that is set up to be completely the opposite and whilst some signs are shining through, it's just not clicking at the moment. January is going to be a VERY big month for GH and with a couple of decent signings and results, there is still plenty of time to halt the slide and turn this around. And as happy or depressed as I might be at the time, I'll STILL be there singing, shouting, screaming and cheering because it's all I can do. Villa 'til I die.

jeffg_utv

@Dunnie for ever, Yes I already knew Ireland didn't play in yesterdays game. I meant as part of the squad. The players see more of each other in training etc than on the pitch. The alleged poor attitude of Ireland could be disrupting team spirit. Dunne has probably paid the price for taking on Houllier. The outstanding Jari Litmanen apparently paid a similar price at L'Pool. I remember Houllier was quoted as saying something like "What I won't tolerate is people constantly chipping away, if that happens I can become very ruthless and nasty". Litmanen was eventually offloaded to Ajax, Nicolas Anelka also paid the price for having a mind of his own at L'pool. I know a Pool supporter who said letting Anelka leave was Houlliers worst ever decision as manager of the club. Houllier doesn't like mavericks and doesn't seem to be a people person. A bit like Benitez perhaps? Houllier was also a schoolteacher so maybe the grown adults currently in his charge feel treated like kids?

VillaWillRiseAgain

Every season under MoN we took a couple of 5-0 thrashings,every season we chucked away leads with minutes remaining.The hammering against Chelsea last season and Liverpool the season before the players seemed to give up.Dunne has been poor all season for Villa and Ireland,I think Dunne has to take responsability for himself.When MoN left Curtis Davis came out and criticised him and there were rumours of players txting champagne glasses to each other when MoN left.These players have a bad attitude its about time a manager came in and slung them out.

Pking

still my opinion Mr Teapot. What is your point though? I am pretty certain MON leaving wasn't down to me, I was there supporting through all games, I did nothing but bang boardings, cheer, pay my money etc. So not sure why the Houllier situation, not a manager I celebrated appointment wise, should have me ecstatic mate, as a Villa fan it surprises me you would think I'd be happy? I wasn't keen on MON and his ways, the dressing room stuff etc. I did however (not that it matters what I think or say mate, lets be honest here!) say he deserved this season, he'd earnt it and I just wished he would have changed for some more modern coaches etc. With all that said, he left, he is now irrelevant to what is going on other than they are his players, GH hasn't had time to bring any in BUT with the fact he can't manage a fairly decent bunch, it is a worry whether he should get time. Just seems a bit of an irrelevant dig to be fair dude, but all good fun, only footie and all that. :( lol

The Fear

The fact remains that MON took us to thre consecutive sixth place finishes, a Wembley final and semi final. It's beyond me that people still felt able to criticise him and to want him out. Well, he has gone, you have got your wish. Why are you not happy? You, and others have criticised MON's man management skills. Gigi has none. Is it any wonder that Carew and Ireland are 'injured' when needed? I'll bet their attitude is the same as mine would be if I had just been slagged off in public by my boss: Go f*** yourself.

chocolate teapot

the fact remains this is nothing to do with MON who walked out mate. I didn't say I wanted him to go so hopefully I'm not lumped into that. I said he had earnt the right to another season after 6, 6, 6 and the Wembley days which I loved. Doesn't mean I liked him and his ways, I thought it had grown stale. Not sure where or why the MON argument is brought up right now when we are all feeling it re: Houllier and the c rap yesterday though. You want to read whatever you want to into what I've said, then there is no point at all in me debating is there? I've got my f****** wish? Low blow that, very low.

The Fear

OK. No more on MON. I have said my piece and that's that. On to Gigi. I don't want him sacked. I don't agree with chopping and changing in that way. He's our manager for good or for ill. BUT .... someone at VP has to start getting a grip. Randy? Paul Faulkner? needs to take Gigi aside and explain a few of the facts of footballing life to him. We don't have pots of money so he's got to make the best of what he's got. I doesn't matter what you or I or Gigi or anyone else thinks of Carew, Ireland, Dunne etc. These are Villa players and it's Gigi's job to get the best out of them, not p*ss them off. If the players he's got are not capable of playing the way he wants then he'll have to change. Remember you're the Villa manager not the ex manager of some other team. If the players are not the best it doesn't matter. Tell them they are. Try to build up a bit of team spirit not destroy it. Send out teams to win matches, not ones you hope might not lose. I could go on. For Randy someone needs to explain that good players do not come to failing clubs. Without good, committed players we are going nowhere except the second division (and I've seen enough of that - and the third division- to last a life time).

chocolate teapot

no idea what has happened to this page, seems to have gone all over the place, or is that just me?
Usually agree Mr Teapot, don't like knee jerk reactions and been defending Houllier to the hilt in the forum but it looks very clear he has lost the dressing room and hasn't 'got' the fans, the way we are heading, something has to give and quickly. Gulp. Just sad stuff, we don't deserve this! Some decent managers out there and would be obtainable now

The Fear

IF a CEO hired any of you, and you had broken your old contract go get here, arrived 5 games into the season, had taken over a team which basically played counter attacking football, had various player unrest, a wage bill that was far too high and a directive from the chairman to reduce it, your best player (?) had just been sold and you'd inherited a makeweight that didn't want to be here, you had also inherited a team that was largely not fit enough for fast football. You listen to the caretaker manager who rates the kids, you give them a go, Bannan breaks into international football, Albrighton scores 4 prem goals, you have a list of injuries as long as your arm, you can't spend any money on new recruits and then you get 3 of the top 5 in 6 days over Xmas. The fans begin to turn against you....come on.....absolutely ridiculous for us to expect any manager to come in and perform miracles. If we had beaten Man Utd (minutes away) and got a point against Spurs (if only Carew had got on a plane?), i reckon this would all be totally different on here...

VillainYorks

VillainYorks, if the bloke knew anything about football then he wouldn't be trying to change the way 20 odd members of a fairly successful team have been playing overnight. He DID cause all/most the injuries and any one who has played at a level above pub league will vouch for that. It's too much change to a routiune that many have got used to. The French ***** would have asked our lord McGrath to train twice a day and wondered why he was injured all the time. He thinks that the way to play in the prem is all fitness. MON proved that this is not the case. With our squad you've got to play the percentages and not this idealistic possession obsessed (even if it's in our own half!!!!!!!!!)OVERpassing game. This is not the French Riviera or La Liga. On top of that he seems to treat everyone like naughty kids and publicly tells them off. Even MON knew that this does not acheive anything. As for McAllister, he seems fairly useless and inexperienced. Most of the teams in the prem play counter attacking football and it works AND we have players that are quick enough for it to work. The bloke is an idiot by thinking that he can turn up and double up fitness and make them pass all day without working on any defensive or even attacking plays, and it's all going to work just by bringing a new ideology to a squad. The man is 60 odd and this isn't new. It's tried tested and proven to fail in this division. If only Randy understood this but it seems a few others don't either.

Villan444

I'm really on the fence here. On the one hand he has been very tactically naive by trying to get a team to play a more possession based game (something a LOT of fans were screaming for) despite the fact that this squad was not put together for that type of Football. On the other hand, bearing in mind how long it took for us to appoint GH, if we were to sack him, would another manager be appointed in time to make the most of the Transfer Window??? On top of that, who, realistically, would take over? It's ok saying "go for this guy, go for that guy" but it really isn't as simple as that, otherwise Mourinho would be top of everyone's lists. Allardyce would probably be the No.1 choice (one I'd personally agree with), but this is something the fans would, once again, moan about.

Francobaresi13

Even amongst the usual disagreements the forum seemed pretty much 100% on his time is up yesterday. The Monny issue, and people know by the end I was rabidly Monny out is an irrelevance. He still should've gone in the summer, and not when he did as things had already gone too far in my opinion with the team and we would've been on a hiding to nothing this season anyway. Monny going was still the right thing to do as we'd reached his ceiling, the issue is Houllier has come in and not maintained the decent parts of Monny set up and neither has he improved on Monny's failures. He hasn't got the camp back on side and there's nothing really to suggest that anything has improved.

Our best play has been no better than we saw under Monny, and our worst play is also the same. As I say Monny going was still right for the club, albeit the thoroughly wrong time in how it played out but we seemingly haven't got the managerial appointment that would've seen us push on - even allowing for a transition period.

Nonsense like 'you wanted the young lads in, you've got what you want ha ha' BS misses the point. Yeah we wanted Clark, Albie, Bannan etc in we wanted them introduced, we wanted them to replace non performing players and have their shot - it's ridiculous to think anybody wanted the youth thrown in like they have been because of the injuries. You give young lads a run, then take them out for a bit to work on failures and focus their training, you don't bring them on in such numbers like we've had to by choice. Despite the fact the youngsters have been the only ones playing with any pride for the most part, so trying to point score like that does their effort a serious disservice.

Villan444 write out the injuries we've had and actually see how many were crocked before Houllier joined the club. There's enough to beat him with without jumping on nonsense like he DID cause all/most of the injuries. More ballwork and tactics wouldn't cause injuries chap and that was the change. His double training sessions don't include an extra 3 hours of cross country despite how the media spin things.

I was heavily in the give him time camp because of everything that was going on outside of his control, I thought we'd start to see more play on the ground but the performances are pretty much what we suffered before, and even with the 3-4 extra points we could easily have by having taken our chances in games we should've got something from, I think more points would just paper over the problems in the way it did previously. I'm just not seeing any change, or any new kind of ethos that could show we should stick with him.

mike_field

Mike, do you think you will see the changes in a few months once a few are shipped in, and a few are shipped out?

VillainYorks

If we give him the full 3 years we will see changes obviously, it would be impossible not to mate. My problem is I've seen nothing from him with the current crop we have really to think he justifies having that long. When I thought it was starting to click before hand, we simply reverted to type again in the very next match. I'm also getting more and more annoyed that Pires is the new Heskey in the final 10 minutes and so on. Without even keeping what was good about Monny, he hasn't improved on what was bad and seems to be simply repeating it. Non performing players aren't being dropped, in the case of Dunne coupled with injury it took too long, yet those that would at least try find themselves on the bench or subbed. It's too familiar that saw me lose it with Monny, and his players or not simple things like that don't require new signings to fix OR at least attempt to fix. That's what I can't get past, there should've been some signs in reality that would give hope and I'm not seeing them.

mike_field

I second that Mike, There are no signs he will do any long term good, count our loses and move on. If we lose money sacking Houllier which means we only have a few cheap signings come January then I will take that if we get the right manager in this time. Maybe even someone temporary to turn this around. I struggle to see how some fans seem to be so blind that they can't see Houllier will not turn this round. He has lost 80% of fans imo and there is no turning that around. The players are not playing for him and we cant afford to buy a whole to squad to sort that so there is only one choice. If only the club had waited until now to choose who our long term manager would be I don't think we would be in this position now. We would either be doing well or mid table and be in a great position to appoint the right man. Houlliers was a big mistake by Randy and unless he sorts it fast he will be the next one fans turn on.

revua

The Fear points out that Mon's recent record at the club was 666. So MON wasn't the Messiah after all, he was the Anti-Christ". "Your son Mr Thorn, the son of the Devil".

VillaWillRiseAgain

I agreed with MON out, he knew behind the scenes he'd lost it, NRC ect and I am also suffering after the consistency of the last few years, but he has found the root cause of big time charlies who do not want to live near the club, and do not want to give their all for the claret and blue. Collins was the unsung hereo last year in great form who covered for Dunne all season ahs also hit bad form also 2 center backs in that situation was always going to be lose lose situation and a player who was asked to pass instead of years of punting with Ireland was a difficult change at his tsage of his career. As a knock on effect the rest of the squad are holding their breath until the transfer window wondering who is going next, NRC, Ash maybe? I still think even though we are very very poor, the squad know they need help, and more depth and with new signings who can play football, I repeat who can play football this will give the whole club the lift it needs. Faulkner has said they will back him in the summer also. This is the start boys and girls, Coyle had it with Bolton and look at them now after his transfers....I'll eat more than my words if wrong but watch this space

ASTONVILLA1964

Unfortunately the bigger problem is that we need new talent in. We desperately need a striker. The Spurs game showed how desperate we are for someone who can stick the ball in the back of the net. Albrighton and Downing ran those wings all day but had nobody to cross to and we ran out of ideas as soon as we got into the spurs half. My concern is that if we sack the manager now, we're going to miss yet another transfer window unless we can get someone to take over straight away. Then we continue to the end of the season with exactly the same problems.

AVFC4ME

*****, with wolves winning today us being bottom on Sunday is now realistic. that would be the wrong time to sack a manager folks

Lost_In_Ca

article aside, you can't beat a bit of Quo!

The Fear

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