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Comparing Aston Villa To Leeds United

Sent from top man Jonny Gould see: www.jonnygould.blogspot.com

A friend of mine, a born and bred Londoner is a Leeds United fan. He remembers their golden era, on a trip to Elland Road he made in December 2010.

To be honest, I read his piece and while he's stoic and full of memories, it's a sad chronicle of anticlimax. We really can be prisoners to all we hold dear, can't we? For Leeds are acclimatizing to life in their new division, having only just got promoted from the third tier.

My friend says Leeds fans chant 'Champions of Europe' before each game to this day - but they never were. They blew it in typical Leeds fashion. So I'm glad a) I don't support Leeds United b) I support my home team and c) mine is a glorious club with a wonderful tradition. We actually did win the European Cup!

In my lifetime, I've seen Aston Villa win football's greatest prizes. Our astonishing rise to glory in winning the league in 1981 followed by Victory in Europe a year later, affords me consolation and inner peace whenever we lose today.

And that we won it all, slap bang in the middle of Liverpool's title and European pomp makes those achievements still greater. The Mighty Reds held both titles directly before and after us. For me, Villa remain the club of miracles.

There are many echoes and parallels with Villa and Leeds; a rise and rise all the way to a European Cup Final where our opponents were also Bayern Munich, and a sudden decline shortly afterwards.

But we beat Bayern in our one and only shot in the 1982 final. Leeds, demoralised and beaten long before the final whistle, lost 3-nil in Paris.

Villa fans also sing 'Champions of Europe' at anyone who needs reminding. Think Arsenal and Chelsea for starters. Now that is fun!

"Dirty" Leeds however, were punished at the final hurdle in 1975 and coupled with disgraceful post-match violence in Paris, they began a downward spiral. When relegated in the early 80′s they took nine seasons to make a return to the top flight.
  
Villa were also relegated - just five years after being crowned European Champions, but unlike Leeds, bounced back at the first attempt.

Leeds United FC was scarred with racism throughout its period of domination on the field. In Paul Reaney, they had a black player but they didn't even acknowledge he was was black! When history recalls Viv Anderson as England's first black international in the late-seventies (ironically a Nottingham Forest player under Brian Clough who Leeds sacked after 44 days), they forget Reaney played for England a decade earlier. Shameful.

Don Revie's Leeds was seemingly built on fear. But Villa weren`t scared of race, it was the most integrated of all clubs both on the terraces and the field - and our grand old marque found poetic association with the sport`s biggest prize as it ascended in harmony.

As background to our major silverware, Birmingham at the time was churning out reggae and 2-Tone hits with bands like UB40 and The Selector. I`m proud of my city and Villa; founded 1874 (a generation earlier than Leeds), co-founders of the Football League with William McGregor, our chairman as the league`s inventor.

Somehow all that Villa stood for in that golden two years came together like ghosts from the club's glorious past. Five generations deep, they came out out to play in claret and blue with the class of '82.

And I`ll always be a Cloughite too. His "win, but win better" approach was foreign to Revie`s Leeds and his style was totally and absolutely vindicated by two European trophies at Forest. Leeds stared on, potless and bottom of the table as Clough and Taylor swept Europe aside. Still, I admire my mate's stoic approach to Leeds. It's a football fans lot to be brokenhearted - and ultimately, it's the hope that kills you.

But secretly, he must be gutted he picked Leeds United as a child. I hear Spurs are in the Champions League and Arsenal play the Beautiful Game! You're a Londoner mate, go and buy one of their scarves. Leeds stand for nothing good. Then or now.

Full blogspot: www.jonnygould.blogspot.com




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The Journalist

Writer: Jonny Gould Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday December 21 2010

Time: 4:50PM

Your Comments

love articles like this, from the heart and from a true Villa man. Thanks Jonny, always a pleasure, never a chore!
The Fear
the fear you muppet, sucking this ****s clit off all of that is absolute *****e apart from t'bit abart Leeds standing for nowt good WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE we were never given a chance to defend are title you cumbucket so that's WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE
Giptonite
Appreciate things from an outsider's perspective but IMO you're quite wide of the mark in your description of Leeds, although obviously I would disagree! We sing about being Champions of Europe because we were notoriously cheated out of that final by a corrupt ref. Far from the rantings of a bitter fan considering it happened well before I was born, that day was a farce according to several sources and the European Champions chant remembers that. In regards to racism while it cannot be denied that it had its elements in the 80's, as it did with many other clubs at the time, I think you are forgetting about Albert Johanneson who was one of the first black players to play in the English top flight when he played for Revies side in the 60's. Also to say that Revie's side was built on fear is a poor interpretation of that team. While referring to the side is an easy stereotype that is recycled over and over - still to this day, it was also without question that they played the best football of the time. Players like Giles, Bremner etc. could pass the ball better than anyone in the country at the time but when the media focus on one aspect that wasn't all too different to that of the time, mood sticks. Now we are far from Angels and that reputation could not have come from nowhere. Likewise hooliganism from the minority is shameful but that could be said about most clubs during the 70's and 80's. That doesn't mean we stand for nothing good then or now. Part of this Dirty Leeds mentality of others over the years has definitely created a 'Them and Us' mentality of our own and that is what has driven us especially in the last couple of years. We have a fanbase that is one of the best in the country which seals out every away allocation whatever the team, whatever the division. We have the highest attendances out of any team outside the Premiership and we are playing the most exciting football also. In the future we are going to stand for a team that have built what they have the right way and not bought the way City and Chelsea are doing now (Yes ironic considering our recent history) and considering we are a one city team with such a fanbase and no matter what you personally feel, a history that however long it takes it's basically a certainty. Gutted at being a Leeds fan I'm somewhat doubtful. In fact looking at football over the last 60 years, apart from that European Cup and your one final, when it comes to honours and success we sort of trump you. If you ignore any of our good aspects then of course you are going to prefer to be a Villain but taking it all into account I'm more than happy to follow the Whites. MOT!
Teenage Kicks
People call Leeds fans arrogant but is it any wonder that we get a bit big headed when articles keep being written by Premiership club fans desperately trying to prove they're 'bigger' or 'better' than us. I'm a Leeds fan and there's no one else I'd rather support. This article smacks a little bit of glory supporting! But really, it's the lows that make the highs even better, however small the highs are. You may call it sad, but I know our promotion back to the Championship gave me one of the happiest days of my life and certainly more than anything your club has given you in the past 14 years. You only need to see the reaction of the Leeds fans at the final whistle on the final day of the season for confirmation of that. And now, sat 2nd in the Championship, I'm certain Leeds fans are much much happier than Villa fans are at the moment. Who knows, we may be in the same division next season, or, dare I say it, Leeds may be a division higher. In all seriousness though, I've never had anything against Villa and I really hope you don't go down this season, the Premiership needs clubs like yours. And our season has a long, long way to go yet...
cccleeds
grow up you silly little boy. It is called football banter, you not grown up enough to enter into it without playground names. Shame.
The Fear
sorry, that was aimed at the gimp not you Teenage Kicks, love your post!
The Fear
Man U fan here, I dislike Leeds as much as anyone else but your story is poor and doesn't really go anywhere. Leeds are a far bigger club than Villa have ever been as much as it pains me to say it. Their history, whilst somewhat colourful, and fanbase is of much more vibrancy than has ever been seen at Villa Park I'm afraid.
manutom
Giptonite is just the ***** that feeds your opinion of Leeds fans
Teenage Kicks
What a pathetic article. Do your research first Jonny Gould and then write something worthwhile.
nimblenick26
On behalf of the "silent majority" of Leeds fans, apologies for the twaddle posted by Giptonite above. Sadly, like most clubs, we have our share of the more intellectually challenged, shall we say ...... But I do take exception to your piece. As someone who's been going to Leeds since 1967 I lived through much of the Revie era, and have lived through all of the dark times since then. But do I regret it? Not a bit .... as you say, it's a football fan's lot to take the bad with the good - and I know too many die-hard, never-miss-a-game fans (of Huddersfield, Brentford, Burnley among others) who have never seen their clubs win anything during their lifetimes ..... And most of us Leeds fans are just of proud of our club as you are of yours ..... so thanks for your pity, but no thanks. I'm immensely privileged to have seen my club win the title three times, to have been at Wembley when they won the FA Cup in '72, and the League Cup in '68; but following a football club is not about what they've won - unless you're just some kind of a Surrey Reds-type glory hunter ....... which you seem to be advocating in your last paragraph!
Yorkshrman
Glad to see you are passionate about your team which you rightly say won the European Cup at a time when Liverpool were dominant both home and abroad. However you have posted some rubbish about Leeds. For a start we "lost" the final 2-0 not 3-0. And far from being out of it long before the end Leeds had in fact dominated the game, a fact acknowledged by Franz Beckenbauer, before letting in two late goals. Prior to this Leeds had been denied a clear penalty and had also seen a goal disallowed for a dubious offside decision. Coming just a couple of years after we had been cheated out of the Cup Winners Cup final versus AC Milan many Leeds fans have suspicions about the impartiality of the referee in this game too. It is the reason why we sing Champions of Europe regardless of the actual result. Racism was a big problem for every club in the 70's, including all the Midlands teams, despite your laughable attempts to paint Birmingham as a city of tolerance. Far from being a club "scarred by racism" Leeds actually had one of the first high profile black players in English football. His name was Albert Johanneson a very skilful South African winger. Like I said at the start, its good to see that you are passionate about your team but you really should do some research before you spout off rubbish about other teams. Merry Xmas all.
TimLeeds
Got no time for 'dirty Leeds' and the Clough episode so little I can disagree with but maybe they weren't as good on the eye as I remember back in the days of Fairclough, Chapman, Batty etc but never really had a problem with them then. The DOL days were different, but that's probably because of what I think of the man rather than what he was doing there and you almost lived the dream despite the way you did it and the price you paid for it.

Not doing too badly at the moment either and I wouldn't mind seeing Becchio at a higher level either although chanting Champions of Europe comes over as bitter as Mancs chanting Argentina. Might make sense to you, but doesn't stop it from looking stupid to everyone else. I speak from experience lol
mike_field
The dirty Leeds mud stuck decades ago and will never budge now. No point trying to change deep rooted perceptions. Revies team will always be remembered as dirty whilst most detractors can't argue about the skill of the individuals. They generally don't feel it serves their purpose to balance the picture out though. There were a lot of "hard men" back in the day. Leeds were just the hardest. Just to offer a bit of balance though, Leeds fans began singing Champions of Europe at matches after that final as, rightly or wrongly, they felt that two disallowed penalties and a disallowed goal had cost them the cup. And it is these decisions that sparked the riotous behaviour. No excuse for that. But some context is only fair don't you think. As miopic fans we all think decisions should go our way but remember, Leeds had lost the cup winners cup final two years earlier. The referee of that match, Christos Michas, was subsequently convicted of match fixing. No one outside of Leeds United cares to remember that. Oh. The match ended 2-0 to Bayern by the way not 3-0. I think the racist allegations are also without any context. Yeah Leeds had its ****s but lets not pretend it was only Leeds. My first ever match was Liverpool v Wolves and though I was only 7 at the time I can vividly remember the bananas and monkey chants being hurled from the kop aimed at George Berry. Liverpool had racists too. Maybe Villa were singularly bereft of racists in the '70's. They sure have them now. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lifetime+ban+for+Villa+racist%3B+COURT%3A+Club+takes+action+over+fan+who...-a0174752253 I'm really not sure how Leeds fans were meant to laud Reaneys race. In my mind not aknowleding it is the absolute antithisis of your claims that "Leeds were scarred with racism" Maybe you need to wag your finger at the FA hyping up Viv Anderson as the first black footballer to play for England. Oh, and by the way. The Selector were from Coventry. The locals their firmly deny that they are a suburb of Brum. At least not yet. Who's gonna argue that Cloughie was not one of if not the best managers the english game has ever seen. He sure as hell forgot his man management skills when he arrived at Leeds though. Like me, your mate will hold no secret regret about supporting Leeds through ups and downs. You were a great team before the war but since then I would take Leeds any day. Indeed the main reason I felt compelled to respond to your diatribe was a comment I often make to other Leeds fans. "Yeah we've have had some really great times and we've had some really bad times. But we could be Villa, trudging along whilst no one cares"
Billy B
Very poor piece and factually incorrect. Some other Leeds fans have covered many of the mistakes but the author also forgot to mention. That the ref in Paris never officiated another game, plus those who were there heard the fix was already in as was the case in Salonika 2 years earlier, where Leeds as the cheated team were encouraged by the fans to give a lap of honour and AC were booed and pelted off the field by the local fans (not Leeds supporters). I'd also submit that Leeds were the last team to lift the title without purchasing it. I'll also state wherever I go in the world and I basically travel significantly I see and meet Leeds fans everywhere I go, they same can't be said about a provincial team such as AV. Regarding songs why do many teams including the 2nd or maybe 3rd best team in brum still sing about Leeds and seem overly preoccupied with us, I don't see such pieces on the Leeds multitude of sites.
chicago white
Jeez. The Selector coming from Birmingham has really ground my gears. Can almost forgive you for not bothering to get your facts straight about Leeds' history. Why would you wan't to? But seamlessly adopting another towns fokelore as your own is just terrible. Ever thought of being a news of the world lazy hack.
Billy B
I see very little on Villa sites regarding Leeds, this is a one off piece as far as I'm aware. Also,Villa are clearly the biggest team in a city with several teams, rather than boasting tht you are the biggest club in a one club town/city. (Newcastle, Boro, Sunderland etc can all boast that)
keithlees1978
It must be a Birmingham thing but when was several used to represent two. Or are you assimilating West Brom, Wolves, Walsall, Covebtry et all as parts of Birmingham. Why not, some of you have already collared their music culture as their own. Maybe Leeds isn't a one team city after all. We've got Bradford, Halifax, Huddersfield too
Billy B
Interesting article, I was born in 85 so too young to remember those days. It's always a hazardous area to start comparing clubs of similar size and stature (albeit with Leeds current decline aside). Perhaps saying that Leeds have been more successful isn't quite accurate. Although a lot of Villa's league successes were a very very long time ago - since the 1960's it would be hard to argue that Villa have been more successful, even with the European Cup win. Certainly both clubs have had a decent share of successes and should be rightly proud of them. Giptonite learn to debate an opinionated article, not slag off a person who is a massively dedicated fan. It's just childish and pathetic and you look like a tw**.
Villa4Europe
Leeds bigger than Villa manutom? LOL... not into this whose club is bigger thing, but ffs, look at our history, forming the league for a start, if that was Man U or a London club the press would never stop going on about the home of football. To me unless we or Leeds are winning leagues, the size of the clubs we love is irrelevant, we'd bleed for our clubs! Personally I'm looking forward to Leeds returning next season to the PL where they belong.

Cheers Yorkshrman usually delete stuff like gimps but I found being called a cumbucket too funny to get rid of in truth! lol
The Fear
In Gipton I beleive cumbucket is an affectionate term used to refer to ones wife or girlfriend. Cheers to The Fear for pointing out that Leeds & Villa are great clubs supported by great fans. And to get a glory hunting scum fan cosying up with Leeds leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. Bit like his cumbucket got from me last night
Billy B
So Notts County are biggest team in England using the age of a club as an argument. Also for the one city team argument I think you'll find many clubs in close vicinity to Leeds and certainly more as much competition as any team in a similar sized catchment area and that's not including Rugby League that no midlands club has to compete with. Leeds fans base is worldwide which i would challenge villa even with there US owner can't claim.
chicago white
Gipton how many did they have at Cess two weeks ago? How many did they take on there infrequent European trips, lets say this we take more on preseason while in D3? Who did AV invite for the clubs centenary centenary celebration some smaller team or a bigger team that would enthuse the public, let's say this Leeds won't be reciprocating it will be Scum, Celtic, Real Madrid or Barcelons or Juve is suspect? Embarrased by Brum on and off the pitch the other week, if that had been against Leeds it wouldn't have been Brum fans making the headlines would it? Sorry just a regional team with regional support, at least Brum have a strong loyal fan base for a regional side and don't whine?
chicago white
was an embarrasing number mate and that 'PRETEND WE SCORED A GOAL' is the cringiest most tinpotted thing i've seen at a football match
Giptonite
I remember the Leeds side of Revie's. They were called dirty, mainly I think because of Norman 'Bites Yer Legs' Hunter, who could hand out some rough challenges but, he also took some diabolical challenges too, what seems to be forgotten about Norman is that he was a fine footballer. Besides his reputation, along with Leeds, as a dirty side was handed out when they were on their way up and believe me, they weren't the only club to be 'robust' in the challenge. Every other club in the entire league were too. My overriding memory's of that Leeds side, was of it being made up of 11 internationals, with another 4/5 internationals in the reserves. The playing side were just awe inspiring, until they got to finals, were they seemed to hold back for some reason,maybe realising that they could lose just as easily as win. One sight I wil;l see until my dying day is Leeds stroking the ball around for 20/30 passes and Billy Bremner sitting on it, challenging the opposition to come and get it. That arrogance is what cemented hatred for that team, because it proved to everyone just how good they could be.
1958Villan
All clubs attendaces vary with the 'feel good factor' which brings in floating supporters. All clubs have their golden era's, and no era should be considered any more relevant than another. The present is always the most important. This season Villa's attendances are down, because at the moment we do not have a 'feel good factor' but will still probably average about 37,000. Lowest for a few seasons, but there is also a major reccession. To talk about Villa being 'regional' is so stupid it's not worth discussion, and despite our poor season we still get 10-15000 more than either Blues or Albion. No idea what leeds get at present, but I'm sure if they were in the Premiership they too would get very good crowds. As for history and tradition, again I haven't got much idea what Leeds have won, but One European Cup, Seven league titles, Seven FA Cups and Five League Cups isn't bad for a regional side.
krfeskivilla
Cumbucket! How did I miss that PMSL

Somebodies off Santa's nice list!
mike_field
Hmmm, here is my two cents as an American. I have lived here for going on 30 years. You wanna know how many times I have met a Leeds fan at a sports bar(pub)/soccer bar? None, zero, ziltch, nada, NO ONE! Do you know how many people I have talked to that have met a Leeds fan...yeah you know whats coming? None, Zero, ziltch!...you get my point. I travel way more than than average statesmen so I have talked to quite a feww people here and there. I have met somewhere around 50-60 Villa fans around the country, mind you that is a small number to you guys but here that is astonishing. I have probably met 200 Manure fans, 200 Arsenal fans, 300 Chelsea fans, new Man$hitty fans, I even had the pleasure of meeting some bluenoses in my home town. But...like I said...how many Leeds fans in the states? Very very very few, football fans in the states have only recently been drawn to European football, and to say that Leeds has a bigger fanbase in the states than Villa is just plain wrong, most fans here probably dont even know who or what a "Leeds" is! Randy Lerner has done wonders for Villa in terms of adding US support for Villa.
All Hail MON
I find it very interesting that a MUTD fan thinks Leeds have a bigger history than Villa. I expect he's of a generation not too far from my own and remembers the DOL spending days when Leeds did so well. It's really simple though, look at club achievements over the years and Leeds don't come close. Nice article JG, perhaps a bit harsh on Leeds but i totally agree regards his choice of clubs, support your local team unless you have other ties, eg. parents that come from that area.
Villan Of The North
Why are we havin a go at Leeds now? I dont think they have anything to do with us.They are a great club and Im delighted to see them on their way back.Leeds last title was more recent than ours. Revie's Leeds were fantastic,also their defeats in the European Cups during the 70s came at a time when corruption and match fixing was rife.Cloughie claimed it when Derby were beaten by Juve,cheating 8asterds I think he called them.
Pking
obviously Im not old enough to have watched them in the 60s/70s,I can only go by videos.From everything I've seen and read 1958 villan is spot on.
Pking
HAHA at that man utd fan who says that leeds are a bigger club than villa he is clearly a 12 year old boy who knows nothing on history ans is asking his daddy who is the bigger club who happens to be a blues fan! We have won alot more than leeds, im a fan of leeds i would love them to be apart of the premier league again but look at us now? premiership, championship big difference. We are by far the bigger club at the moment, there is no dispute in this. As for the article i really cant be bothered to read sorry fear, i have nothing against leeds just stupid comments i have read on this article. If i was the leeds fan id be *****ed if someone bad mouthed my club but we are in a position to say stuff like that so is every other premier league club at the moment.
P.Avfc
Well known that Revie offered bribes to keep Leeds in the old first division, Bob Stokoe spoke about it on TV, he offered him £300 to throw the game. Leeds mean nothing to me, couldnt care less.
Trekker
i didnt really read the article either,but still managed to have an opinion.Chances are we will be playing Leeds next season.
Pking
to clueless of America who has never met a Leeds fan in America, maybe check out Leeds United Americas or NY Whites just to name two groups, for example when Leeds played Scum last Jan there were more Leeds fans in the main Scum pub in NY than scum fans, but obviously you travel to every state and every bar in the US. I've lived in the US since the 90's before Fox or even the internet and Leeds has had a presence sine before I arrived. I was recently visiting Atlanta and was in an Irish bar Villa were on live, I think it was the cess game, not one of your lot plenty of cess, a couple of scum and at least 5 Leeds none of which I knew. I've met Leeds fans in NY, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, DC, San Francisco, San Jose, LA, Dallas, Orlando, FT Lauderdale, Toronto just to name a few of the cities I've visited, never mind the 100's in various American airports. Regarding the bung lies, why did Stokoe wait 20 yrs to make the allegation and for a game which Leeds lost, weren't AV demoted for throwing games at the same time as the Wendies, maybe you should stick to facts not to made up press stories by people who had grudges against The Don but no credibility. Regarding Villas trophies how any fan can count any success prewar but in Villas cas most trophies were in the 19th century when football was totally different is beyond me!
chicago white
This is not a fair representation of Leeds United. I struggled through the article trying to understand the point, other than perhaps personal banter or the obvious national draw of Leeds....lol I'd rather be on the way up. Every day something interesting happens and the highs are no less high. I doubt a Chelsea fan would have been anywhere near as ecstatic up on winning the Premier League as we were at Elland Road against Bristol Rovers last year. I'd rather that than drenched in hard-fought mediocrity as Villa are right now. I wonder the last time they had an atmosphere like a Elland Road last week vs QPR? "Champions of Europe" is loads of fun. What people don't realise about Leeds fans is we have a great sense of humour as well as pride for our club. Plus it sound great with 40,000 singing it continuously. It always hard when people start arguing over who are the bigger clubs, it is hard to quantify. This is especially true if figures like Villas first division league titles are thrown into the mix. You've already said you started the league!! Of course you had a strong record from 1893 to 1910. Who were the competition? Notts County every week? Incidentally i'm the world record holder for 'Fropbopping'. I just invented it, If only i could form a governing body to validate my delusions.... anyone else want to join in?
ale
Regarding Reaney - he was regarded as a white player at the time, it wasn't as if Grandstand was repeatedly calling out he was black. He is/was of mixed race, much like Ryan Giggs, who isn't now regarded as a black player either. Leeds however did have a black first team player in the 60s - Albert Johanneson - long before many black players played for other high profile teams. I'm not entirely sure what point you're making, but if it's one of implied racism, actually Leeds as a team have a record better than most. One could go on and challenge other parts of the article, but it strikes me as a piece of trolling by the ironically named Vital ... website to harvest a bunch of registrations which they can then sell on. I look forward to the spam email - I created an email specifically for this registration in order to test it.
maxis
This has stirred a bit of a debate. Unfortunately Johhny Gould made a couple of basic errors which hasn't helped. Leeds lost 2 0 in The European Cup Final and The Selecter were a Coventry band. That said most of the rest makes sense. As for the Clubs support Leeds were second in attendances in the old third division to the mighty Norwich two seasons ago. Last season they averaged 100 (just one hundred) more than Norwich despite the fact that that Elland Roads capacity is 13000 more than Carrow Road. On average Elland Road had 14000 empty seats for every game last season. This season there is less than 1000 difference between Leeds, Derby and Norwich. This despite the fact that Elland Road can hold more than 6000 more than Derby and 13000 more than Norwich. Both Norwich and Derby regularly have more fans to games than Leeds and Leeds can claim to be the third best supported club in the Championship. Of Leeds 10 home games this season they have had less than the average attendance of both Derby and Norwich on 5 occasions for both teams. On average there are 14000 empty seats at every Leeds game so far this season. In terms of history Leeds can boast 3 League titles, 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup, 3 Division 1 titles and 2 Fairs Cups. A total of 10 trophies. They couldn't even win the title in division 3. Oh how we laughed. Villa have a history of better support despite sharing the territory with 2 other clubs with Birmingham postcodes (B-lose and Albion). Leeds do not share a postcode with any other football league club and laughably try to bring Rugby in to the equation, pmsl. But most importantly we have a history of success with 7 Championships, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups, A European Cup, A European Super Cup, 2 Division 1 titles and a third Division title (when we went there at least we won the damn thing). I am not a mathmetician but that seems to be 24 trophies against Leeds 10. So lets not mess about with heresay with childish comments such as I see more fans in the USA ne ne ne ne ne . The facts do not lie. Not only were we the founders of Football in this country, we have won more than most (especially a minnow such as Leeds) and have consistently had greater support. Infact in the 65 years since the end of the war Villas average attendance has been higher than Leeds on 41 occassions However we all support our club with a passion and Leeds are as passionate as any. They are just not as big or as succesful as the mighty Villa.
voiceoftheholte
Er .... voiceoftheholte .... Norwich weren't in L1 two seasons ago. They were relegated from the Champ that year, and went straight back up. Haven't bothered to read the rest, but I'm sure that it's equally accurate ......
Yorkshrman
Lost 3-0!? - Paul Reaney Black!? - LOL!!
leeds_leeds_leeds
I've had the misfortune of living in Leeds for a year or so and obviously know a few fans because of this. Other than that, I don't know anyone who has any sentiment towards them as a club as a second team, wishes them well, or looks out for their results etc. They were/are called Dirty for a reason and were hated more than most. I know a Chelsea Steward of 20 years who witnessed their coaches being set upon as they were trying to leave the City and he declares it his worst experience in those years. We can talk about which Div we're in etc. but at this moment in time, they're only about 5-6 places behind us in the grand scheme of things. Would hate to see them get promoted, as they're scum. LOL. had to post @Gimptonight. I know t'locals speak like that but didn't realise that they spelt like that aswell.
Villan444
This is one of those articles which annoys me about football fans. I won't comment on the inaccuracies of the article because that's already been done, but I will comment on the ignorance of it. So jonny, before you put anymore words into our mouths, let me tell you something - being a Leeds fan is a blessing. It is the true meaning of being a football fan...as a Leeds fan, you experience so many emotions...ups and downs...that it builds a togetherness and passion that fans of clubs like yours just can't rival. Only at Elland Road will you get 30000 fans twirling their scarves singing 'champions of europe', because no other club has felt the injustice, despair and misconception that we have...and in turn they do not have the defiance that we have. When your club is losing by 4 or 5, you go quiet or murmer discontent at whoever. When we lose by 4 or 5, we sing 'we're Leeds and proud of it', because we've been beaten down yet still here. The near-misses to past successes have only served to strengthen our love for the club, not hamper it. So go and ask your mate, if he had the chance to go back and support another club, would he do it? I guarantee you he wouldn't.
jimbob0802
going on the title of this post i thought it was going to be a comparison of sorts but all i see is a child like attempt at saying my dads bigger than your dad, shame on you, i live in Leeds and my Fiancee is a Leeds fan, i myself moved to leeds a few years ago and take pride in wearing my villa shirt around yorkshire. the racism thing was blown out of proportion and wasnt much different from most places so kind of pointless to point it out especially as i have seen more racism in birmingham than leeds (im from brum so i can say it)
Astonian Villan
Yorkshrman you are correct on the fact about Norwich. My error and well spotted. I am fairly certain you will find no other inaccuracies as you have looked and couldn't find any, but am always happy to stand corrected. And giptonite . . . . where do we start?? For you I would suggest school or should that be . . . skool??? You are without doubt either the youngest person to post on these sites or the most stupid. Would you like to educate me and every user of this site as to the language that you are using in your posts. It doesn't seem to be English, but I can see a resemblance of sorts. And as for your away support wouldn't that be better served filling your 14,000 empty seats for your home games?? And as for 'ale' saying how good the atmosphere was at Leeds v QPR a few days ago, I am sure the 11,000 empty seats contributed enormously. pmsl again.
voiceoftheholte
Leeds fans are retards simple as, who has won more? Villa, Who has a bigger stadium? Villa, Who has a bigger fanbase? Villa, that is debatable but i cant see an argument for leeds on this one. Who is still in the premiership? Villa, Better team at the moment? Villa. Not really a point leeds fans can make at the moment, we are superior in every way.
P.Avfc
P.Avfc... you missed a few. Villa one of 7 clubs to be ever present in the Premiership since inception. Leeds no?? http://stats.football365.com/hist/tier1/attable.html no sign of leeds. agree crap article though. villa still vastly superior in every department. end of. oh yea dirty mancs stop brown nosing leeds
JeffBeck-TheLeftSide
Voice of the holt, your argument about empty seats is pointless. All it does is state, correctly, that we have a large stadium compared to those around us. Do you really think that Norwich would be able to fill a ground the size of Elland Road either? You also fail to acknowledge our away support, which is bigger and more vibrant than any in the championship, as has been shown by our consistent breaking of attendance records at grounds we have visited this season. Most notably against Coventry at the Ricoh, where their previous record was held against Chelsea. In the last 20 years I have experienced far, far higher highs and lower lows than any Villa fan has. And I would not trade that for anything. Being a Leeds fan is something you will never, ever understand, as this rollercoaster ride is something that bonds us and builds an intrinsic passion incomparable to other clubs. I have always had a soft spot for Villa as I have a few friends who are fans, but a lot of the main article is tripe. Oh, and I love the way you just completly discouned Rugby League as a challenge to Leeds' gates. It shows your ignorance of the sport culture in Yorkshire. Plus, the Birmingham Urban area has a population similar to that of much of West Yorkshire. Therefore, it is fair to compare our potential fanbase to include that of Huddersfield, Bradford, etc. And about the main article. Many inaccuracies that have already been pointed out make it laughable.
ciaz
Not sure what the point of your post is, voiceoftheholte. We don’t fill our ground? Well, neither do you – not even for the visit of your dearly beloved neighbours, Birmingham. Frankly, whether there are 10 empty seats or 10,000 doesn’t make a huge amount of difference. But the fact is that Leeds is still the 4th or 5th most expensive ground in the country. A lad who works for me goes to every 3rd or 4th game – because he can’t afford to go to all of them. Our local postmaster has started going to Bradford – because he can get season tickets for himself and his two sons for less than a single ticket at Leeds. And I’d guess that most Leeds fans would know of similar stories. If our lord and master Ken Bates introduced a sensible pricing structure, I’d be surprised if we didn’t get pretty close to capacity every week. As for our away support …. well, I don’t know any Leeds fan who travels away but doesn’t go to the home games – so how those people could “fill our 14,000 empty seats” is beyond me ….. Anyway, before we start getting into a “mines bigger than yours” contest, let’s wait until we’re on a level playing field. Next season, all being well ….!
Yorkshrman
What profession would that be Giptonite?? Schoolboy?? I think that you may have been the guy I met at a toga party the other night, you were the one dressed as a goat. I can tell when you are about to put your fingers on the keyboard fella . . . . . I can hear the rest of Yorkshire groaning from here. You really are an embarrassment to your fellow supporters, some of whom seem to be more than inbred, 6 fingered, banjo players such as your good self. Muppet. Your jealousy of all things claret and blue shines through. I would say that secretly you are a Villa Fan, but we are not accepting you. Leeds are welcome to you chap!!! Now go and count your toes and see if they match the number of fingers you have got. And if you are struggling to count . . . . the answer is 12.
voiceoftheholte
Ciaz I do hope that you are not as dopey as your pal giptonite? I have simply stated that Norwich have the same average attendance as you but have 13000 seats less to achieve this. If Carrow Road was the same capacity as Elland Road, they would massively out support you. This smoke, mirrors and lies about you being the biggest supported club in the division is seriously making me laugh. Face facts, you are nearly as well supported as Norwich. I would dispute who has had the most highs and lows. In the last 20 years you have had a couple of relegations, a promotion, and lost a cup final and a play off game. I think we have lost a couple of cup finals and won a couple. No promotions no relegations. We have had several local derbies against teams in our own city. Something you will never experience. You will never have the experience of working and living with friends/family who support another team in the same City. You may dislike teams from other Cities such as Sheffield, Manchester, Huddersfield etc but will never ever understand a real local derby and the emotions that go with it. The City of Birmingham has slightly more than double the population than the City of Leeds, but it supports 3 teams. The City of Leeds supports just the one. I understand that Leeds also supports a rugby League team as well, but the arguments do not stack up. For you to think that it is only Leeds fans who go through a roller coaster of emotions is fuunny in the extreme. Nearly every team does. So as you see there are no inaccuracies in my post other than the mistake regarding Norwichs' spell in the third tier. You are not as big, not as successful and are a simply a scratch mark on the world football map. Villa built the map and invited others to join.
voiceoftheholte
yorkshman there have been many levels playing fields since the war, that is why I highlighted that Villa have been better supported than Leeds on 41 of the years since. You sound a bit like the sad b-lose fans around here who used to say 'wait until we are in the same division as you and we will be better supported'. That has been blown out of the water as they can not fill their little ground despite charging less than the Villa. Leeds are a reasonably supported club, similar in size to Derby, Leicester and Norwich. Villa are amongst a group of clubs such as Everton, Spuds and Sunderland. Manure and the Arse are pushing the boundaries in fan base and you could possibly add Murderpool to that. Leeds though do have the potential to get fan numbers similar to that of the Villa.
voiceoftheholte
Holte, once again, you chat crap. For starters, I claimed we have the higher highs and lower lows than you. Which is true. Did you see the celebrations at elland road when we got promoted? You can't possibly understand what that feels like, especially following some harsh experiences in League One. Also, in regards to fanbase, again, you COMPLETELY disregard our away support. A quick look at the statistics will show you that, this season and last, we have set the record attendance at nearly every ground we have visited. Why does this count for nothing in your eyes? The atmopshere as well is a joke at Villa Park. Like I said, I have friends who are fans and have been with them before. If you have really experienced high highs and low lows that have bonded you, the atmosphere at Villa Park does not show it, at all, even in the 'legendary' Holte End. In the past ten years, I have experienced champions league games against AC Milan, Barcelona and Lazio. I have seen us get relegated, twice. I have seen us at two playoff finals and three semi-finals. I have seen us beat Manchester United from two divisions below them, at Old Trafford. And I have seen us get promoted. And let me tell you, the promotion from league one meant much, much more than any of those champions league games. you cannot understand that having not experienced the same lows we have. Thought this was a great post at waccoe that sums up Villa, pretty much - Thought about writing an erudite response about Villa but couldn't think of anything to say about them. I don't know when their supposed glory days were, if they had any. I can't name any of their legendary players either, though I'd imagine even their harshest critics could name that Leeds team from the late sixties. I don't know if they've ever won anything or come close to it. There hasn't been several mainstream factual and fictional books written about Aston Villa recently to my knowledge, nor a film adaptation of a best-selling book written about the club's history so I guess like most people I'll just never know.
ciaz
You know what, your post previous to mine sums you up. You are a complete Idiot if you think that we have 'the potential to get fan numbers similar to that of Villa'. lets see how man fans you get in League One if you got there, hey? No point talking to you because you are seriously, seriously deluded. Enjoy your mid table mediocracy some more whilst I go and hold on tight to the rollercoaster ride that is being a Leeds United fan.
ciaz
We're not famous anymore!
haysqwelchlufc2
My previous, little post was just a teaser. The content of the original post says it all, really, even though the actual words are complete and utter tripe. Why has this Villa fan chosen little old Leeds to deride? We are not even in the same division! I think I know why. We sing out loud and proud at ER and at every away ground that "we're not famous anymore". Why? Because we know that we are, and because this is another example of how Leeds fans can bond as family members and state the obvious-NOT Why do we always sell out our away allocation, be it Barnsley on a Tuesday night or somewher "darn sarf" any day of the week. Because of our unbridled passion for a club that means something. Even our most hated enemy, the Manc fan, says as much Why are we "not famous anymore"? Is it because wherever we travel, the home fans come out in droves to see "the Leeds"? Possibly. Is it because nearly every home ground has its record/highest attendance when Leeds are in town. Possibly. Is it because Leeds fans are the home club's directors best friends?Possibly. No, the reason why Leeds United Football Club is "not famous anymore" is because, actually, we are, and Leeds fans can sing about the irony of opposition fans singing that "we're not famous anymore"!! Not that you can hear the opposition fans that well because of the passionate noise being generated by LUFC fans So, I have answered my own question. The deluded person who chose Leeds to deride, of all the clubs that he could have chosen, is simply because "we're not famous anymore"
haysqwelchlufc2
pmsl. I would like all the deluded Leeds fans to return to the Villa page when you have a) won 7 titles or b) won 7 FA Cups or c) won 5 League Cups or d) THE European Cup or e) The European Super Cup or f) even the third division. Every post on here has conveniently failed to pick up on the fact that Norwich have the same crowds as Leeds depite having a ground capacity 13,000 smaller than Elland Road. So maybe you should simply come back when you are bigger than Norwich?? You are mid sized club trying to convince people who really know, that you are bigger than you actually are?? Very sad for you, but very, very funny for everybody else. And as for legendary Villa players, if you don't know, who gives a monkeys?? But to share some information with you, Villa have provided more players for England than any other club in the country. If you don't know any of them then maybe you should do some reading. Gipsonite I exclude you from this statement as I suggest you get a book with pictures in. And as for singing 'we are not famous anymore', the irony is wonderful as you were never famous anyway, except in your own eyes.
voiceoftheholte
voiceoftheholte-anybody there? Hello! No, the lights are out
haysqwelchlufc2
ho ho ho merry Christmas. Out supported by Norwich. pmsl. Seems like the lights are on both here and in Norwich.
voiceoftheholte
7 titles 6 of which were won before 1900 wow what a record, 6 FA cups 4 of which were also won before 1900 awesome record. Regarding Norwich check our prices compared with Norwich, its not Leeds fans fault that we have a deluded chairman who charges top end premiership prices, also take into account our wonderful chairman has decided to close the top of the East Stand reducing the capacity by 20% which is a factor in our attendances and do not reflect in the statistics. How many would Vanilla average in D3, maybe you should check you history. What this article has shown and the replies by the Vanillas is that fact aren't important. Oh and the reason I'm referring to you as vanillas is that you are to football what beige is to colours. The fact that the original scribbler (can hardly be attributed author) of this junk is testament that Leeds are a bigger club. All your rival(s) are regional Brum, WBA, Wolves, Coventry whereas we don;t have local rivals and those who consider us rivals and still sing regularly about lowly Leeds are Scum, Cess, Arse, Bluescum (Chelski to you uninformed vanillas).
chicago white
voiceoftheholte - have you actually SEEN Villa win any of these 7 league titles, 7 FA Cups, etc, etc etc? (As the 6th League title was in 1910, and the last FA Cup in 1957 you probably ain't seen too many of 'em!!) But you're missing the point of the original article, anyway. That wasn't directly comparing who was "bigger" (how do you define that, anyway?!) but was comparing the social context of the two clubs, and suggesting that anyone who "chose" to follow Leeds should be regretting it. No-one who follows a club, any club, through thick and thin should regret it; and the only fans to be pitied are those who've flitted from Liverpool to the Scum to the Arse to Chelea over the last 25 years or so. So you're a die-hard Villa fan; good for you! But that doesn't make you any better (or any worse) than me, or than any other loyal fan of any club ........
Yorkshrman
Chicago if you check your facts you will see that we hold the record for the biggest attendances in Division 3. I didn't need to check our history, I know it. And don't blame everybody else if your chairman closes part of your ground because you can't fill it. And as for local rivals we have two in the same postcode, B-lose and Albion. Wolves and Coventry are the equivalent to your Bradford and Huddersfield, we simply don't care about them. You all seem to be losing on every single point you make, so I suggest you go and frequent a site where somebody actually cares about you. It appears that the Leeds Rugby Leeds Club might be decent place to start. And Vanillas . . . . lol . . . . did you think of that all by yourself? Maybe you shoould start looking at books with pictures in like Giptonite. Oh and have a count of your toes whilst you are at it.
voiceoftheholte
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/DivisionalAttendance/0,,10794~20107,00.html This shows that we have the highest attendence in championship this season. Also, of the 11 away league games we have played this season we have given 8 of the opposition clubs their highest attendence of the season, as well as of course selling out our allocation. Norwich have done this once. http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/DivisionalAttendance/0,,10794~200925,00.html This is last season attendances, again you will notice how we have the highest. Again out of the 23 away league games we played we gave the opposition their highest attendance of the season. Norwich did so once. Our average attendence this season is also higher than Fulhams, Birminghams, West broms, Blackburns, Boltons, Blackpools and Wigans. Out of those teams only Fulhams average attendence this season is higher than Leeds's from their last year of League 1. Purely for my own amusement if you look at our first season in League 1 our average attendence was 26546. Higher than 8 Premierleague clubs at the time. Out of our 23 away games we gave the opposition their highest crowds in all but 3 of them. Also in that season our lowest attendence was 19095, this was higher than every other clubs (bar Nottingham forests) higest attendence for that season. The opposition fans would then chant "your not famous anymore" hopefully you can understand now why we sarcastically chanted "were not famous anymore" back to them. Personally i quite like Villa, amongst all the premierleague teams there are only a few which i can stand and villa is one of these. I also respect them for bringing British talent in, instead of just buying from abroad (even if you do just steal them from other teams).
croftyleeds
yorkshman. Good post fella. Unfortunately never seen an an FA Cup win, only defeat in a final. Seen us win the League, the European Cup, the European Super Cup, Division 3 and 4 of our 5 League Cups. Not great, but not bad and more than 95% of clubs over my lifetime. And you are correct, neither you nor me are any better (or worse) than most loyal fans of any club. We simply love our own. Merry Christmas chap.
voiceoftheholte
VoiceoftheDolts (very fitting) I'm glad your so proud about being part of the largest attendance in the 3rd division you must have been playing a big team fallen on hard times in the standing era. Funny how you harp on about all your titles and FA cups but don't answer the question that I and others pose about 5 of those titles and 4 of those cups coming in the 19th century when how many teams competed! We can fill our ground and we did on a number of occasions last season even with top premiership prices, its just hard to fill a ground when the chairman closes 20% I believe that was the point - stupid. Regarding highest attendances check out Leeds record, we were part of the highest ever attendance for any game ever staged in Europe 137,000, how about that for a fact, oh and it wasn't back in the 19th century either and also not for a final!
chicago white
and we have Leeds Rhinos and Leeds Carniege, Hunslet Hawks, Bratfud City, Hudds n Halifax in the same area you aids ridden rat pellet don't forget 200.000 students who are not from Leeds and norwich dint get higher gates than us last season ****ychops don't forget season tickets are £400 more expensive at E.R. anorl "we simply don't care about theM"you have bcfc in that list so you're admiting to having no rivals even in yer LOCAL area?
Giptonite
Crofty no one has said your average is not the highest. But only because Norwich and Derby have significantly smaller grounds. Well done on your away support, it is good to see that Leeds fans like to fill the coffers of other clubs. But maybe you want to start by filling the coffers of your own club by selling the 14,000 empty seats that you average for every single home game.
voiceoftheholte
I agree with you and it is disapointing that we are unable to fill your stadium week in week out. but i disagree with the fact that if norwich or derby had bigger stadiums they would have bigger attendences. Unless of course they sell out week in week out.
croftyleeds
Just checked the attendances in the EPL for the 12 seasons we were in Leeds averaged higher attendances 8 of those 12 seasons VofDolts, you 4 times and in one of those seasons Leeds had 35% of the capacity reduced because of building the East Stand so using your stat logic does that make us 2x bigger than Vanilla, even in our relegation season we had a higher average attendance and Leeds were never outside the top 1/2 of the attendance table which cannot be said for the Vanillas.
chicago white
This is absolutely hilarious. Voice of the Holte has been making it out to seem like we Leeds fans are deluded to thinking our club is big. In reality, it has been pretty much shown that HE is the deluded one. Leeds are a huge club. I'm not ignoring Norwich stats, holte, either. But it seems you are COMPLETELY disregarding our HUGE away following. WHY? Because it disproves your pathetic argument. I'd like to see Norwich get the same attendance after suffering in League One for THREE seasons. And your argument about Villa and their titles - yeah, 5 of which won before 1900! What a joke! You are a deluded fool, far more deluded than any of us loyal Leeds fans. Villa are not a small club, I acknowledge that. But Leeds aren't either. You are very, very blind to not see that. Even Man Utd Scum fans can see it, and they despise us.
ciaz
Pathetic Leeds had a small period of success in the late 60's early 70's. Who gives a toss?
Trekker
Who gives a toss, I believe it was a deluded vanilla scribe who gives a toss, well look at it this way it least us lowly Leeds fans have brought some traffic to your pathetic little site and seemingly some attention, funny thing is our lowly Leeds sites don't need attention from other supporters to generate interest or traffic. So a league title in the 90's doesn't count then, I'm sure it was if it was a vanilla title though! A small period of success in the 19th century does though it seems when the FL had no relegation and was essentially a regional league made up of midlands & north west teams, ho hum. It seems you poor vanillas don't realize what a good waccoe-ing means.
chicago white
It seems anyone with an ounce of reason has stayed off this thread, so I am not going to post this. Leeds are the biggest and best club in the world to Leeds fans, and Villa likewise to Villa fans. We have the best history (ancient and modern) But Leeds in the 70s obviously outshone Villa and had a remarkble (if not well liked) team. Just like Man City, both clubs have fallen into the 3rd tier, and shown massive support when it was most needed. Ultimately, though , Villa win, because most neutrals would consider we have a nicer name, nicer colours, and nicer chairman, nicer ground, and nicer fans! Don't take that too seriously Leeds fans. But be honest - you clearly have loads of great fans and passionate support, but your reputation goes before you and is sullied by a few too many others.
stennyvilla
That last response was as beige as it comes and sums up vanilla, the reason Leeds are and always will be a bigger club is because we are so hated, its why we are so hated is because were better than any other club even when we are bad. Leeds fans don't want to be anybody's 2nd team, its Leeds or nothing for us we also don't give a toss about neutrals, as there are no neutrals in our world if your not for us your against us. That's why we would be embarrassed to pretend to celebrate a non existent goal or not to sell out our away allocation even on a freezing cold Tue at Hereford. That's why we don't just sell out our away allocation but also have masses of fans in the home ends as well to the chagrin of the home team, even when we played scum at TOWD. This is why we have a worldwide fanbase that goes back before the internet and satellite TV, that's why we played matches in the US in 1997 and had organized support there since before 2006, check your pathetic lions clubs in the US! I also went to college in the midlands in the late 70's & early 80's and can only recall meeting one vanilla fan and that was the season you won the European cup, met plenty of wolves, stoke even leicster fans but vanilla fans were anonymous just like your team, I suppose when your beige its just so easy to be anonymous.
chicago white
talk about having chips on your shoulders. You support your team, I support mine, I couldnt give a toss about what you think you have won, or what you have won, or where you are now, chicago white, you need to grow up, oh I ve seen leiceter fans but no villa, gosh how terrible lets all cry boo hoo.
Trekker
I thought you didn't give a toss? breaking news press release from lourie or whatever his name is, in a sign of his renewed commitment he announced we are planting potatoes at vanilla park so we have something to lift for the fans at the end of the season!
chicago white
Ah now I see you are 12 years old or a troll, night night sleep tight.
Trekker
You boy's are truly beige no wonder the Zulu's make fun of you so much, they certainly gave you all a humour bypass. I was going to say in the joke that they were planting turnips but then I remembered that's what grows on the terraces at vanilla park, and yes I've been to vanilla park when it had terraces, Leeds fans used to think it only existed with hillsbourgh for us to play semi finals at. Also check out the UEFA club coefficient history and see who EUFA still rank as the highest ranked English club side, here's a clue Vanilla isn't even on the list, neither are the shrubs, there are only 3 English teams that make the list.
chicago white
A sleeping giant. It's a cliché in football always used to describe a once 'big' club who has fallen on hard times but who could, in the right circumstances, rise again and become great. The trouble is, this is almost never true. Or rather, all those giants said to be sleeping rarely ever wake up and if they do, it's not for long. The lower leagues are now full of such clubs; teams that once upon a time were major players in the top flight of English football such as Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest, QPR, Southampton, Coventry, Derby, Palace and Ipswich. All have had golden periods but will they ever match their previous glories? Will Forest win the Champions League? Will QPR ever finish second in the Premier League or be the top London club? Will Derby win the top flight? Will Ipswich win a European trophy? Top three for Palace? Probably not. Even clubs like Wolves and Sunderland - both massive, important in the 50s - though now in the top flight, and often in the past said to be a sleeping giants, look decidedly small next to the behemoths at the top of the league even despite their recent achievements. The gap has grown hugely while they were asleep. They have woken up but they are no longer giants. With the promotion of Newcastle, has another sleepy big boy awoke? Not really. Despite heroically large crowds, the financial state of the club precludes anyone realistically hoping for anything other than survival until the club is bought and funded appropriately. And in truth Newcastle's high profile has always relied on a few good cup wins in the 50s and not much else. In terms of achievements it's never really been a giant, asleep or otherwise. With no top-flight title since the twenties, if Newcastle is a sleeping giant then so are Huddersfield Town, with three titles to their name in that decade. As fond as I am of the Magpies, they have yet to aspire to giant status. The truth is there are no more sleeping giants. The likes of Sheffield Wednesday have proved that once you fall out of the top flight, it's easy enough to lose that status for half a generation or more. And with that comes a disparity of income and investment. The current financial set-up rewards success more disproportionately than ever before and if the parachute payments are extended to four years, this gap will grow even wider. No, there are no more sleeping giants. Just clubs who used to be great but which are no longer. Except one perhaps. Leeds United. Maybe this is a generational thing. If you grew up in the 80s, Leeds were a second division side and not a very good one at that. My generation grew up with Leeds as a powerhouse side of extraordinary talent matched with extraordinary physicality; both dirty Leeds and beautiful Leeds all at once. 1968-1974 yielded two league titles, two European trophies, one FA Cup and one League Cup. They were runners-up three seasons in a row in that period. Leeds United was the 70s made extant; hairy, rough, a little scary and yet thrillingly brilliant. It is those memories that make me feel Leeds United is not just a big club, but a massive one. A giant. And it might just have woken up with this weekend's promotion. Many have said that the Premier League needs Leeds. It certainly needs some bloody Yorkshire to give it some grit. But these last few years of decline and the financial meltdown have wounded them badly. There is a long way to go and, typically of Leeds, many backroom dramas to unfold, especially as no-one really knows who owns the club. Leeds has always had madness in the boardroom, going back to when they appointed Cloughie as manager despite the fact he was their fiercest critic. Like Yorkshire Cricket Club, it has been home to much political infighting and power struggles between giant egos. But that's proof of their big beast status. With the right backing, we all know Leeds could become a top-four Premier League club. They have a massive fanbase and the city has the ego that goes with being a big club. It has that innate self-belief that smaller, less significant towns don't have. No-one can imagine Norwich - their superiors this year - becoming a major player in the Premier League but you know, you just know The Damned United will be.
superwhite
Loved the 1970's, The Sweeney, feathercuts, sta prest, Oxblood DMs. Shame they're all gone now, along with Leed's best days. Well supported club -yes Trophies - not many History - not much Class - non Whatever happened to "no one likes us, we don't care". Sorry, that was the other"bad boys". Merry Christmas to you and the Lu Lus.
northamptonvillan
"but your reputation goes before you and is sullied by a few too many others". So says stennyvilla. Would you be so kind as to factually expand on this please? Read more: http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7506838#ixzz18voUFWgP
haysqwelchlufc2
all the leeds fans getting worked up and writing 5,000 word dissertations on this.... the fact is who cares??? Don't get so worked up about it I couldn't care less who is the bigger club etc etc... boringggggg - just support your team!
Valiant Villan™
Valiant Villan, quite agree with your suggestion that we should just support our team. Leeds fans always have, always will, and I'm sure the same applies to you. What you need to remember,however,is that one of your own,for no apparent rhyme nor reason,chose to start the whole comparison thing off. This appears to be a totally random,inaccurate and,in places,offensive article. You cannot blame Leeds fans for standing their corner and defending "our" reputation. You would too.
haysqwelchlufc2
as you quite rightly say haysqwelchlugc2 we don't care about vanilla we are only responding to a deluded piece of tripe by someone who obviously does care about Leeds as it not his 1st but 2nd piece on the mighty Whites. Then all the little baby vanillas jump talking about there record in the 19th century when they may have been a massive club in a 10 team league, how tin pot and deluded is that.
chicago white
 

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4. thefacehead 465
5. HeathfieldRoad1874 238
6. sirdennis 230
7. kefkat 216
8. Villan Of The North 159
9. DeanoVilla 142
10. Clubpaver 138

League Results (view all)

League Table (view table)

Team P W D L GD Pts
9. Spurs 8 3 2 3 -1 11
10. Stoke 8 3 2 3 -1 11
11. Hull City 8 2 4 2 0 10
12. Aston Villa 8 3 1 4 -8 10
13. Everton 8 2 3 3 0 9
14. WBA 8 2 3 3 -1 9
15. Leicester City 8 2 3 3 -2 9

Breaking League News

Weekly Rumour Mill-A Couple of Links!
» Burnley : 25/10/2014 10:16:00
Carrick on Comeback Trail
» Man Utd : 25/10/2014 09:40:00
Is Garay The Man?
» Man Utd : 25/10/2014 09:36:00
The Question-Ings!
» Burnley : 25/10/2014 09:34:00
It`s Goodbye from Me!
» Chelsea : 25/10/2014 09:29:00

Current Site Poll (view all polls)

Villa v QPR (away) will:
Suggested By:  Mystic Mug
Win - whoop! 39%
Lose - we go again! 43%
Draw - meh! 18%