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A Spurs Fans Opinion On The Villa Fans Debate!



I've read this thread (JF: forum, containts adult language) with absolute fascination.

Here are more than a few observations from an 'interested` outsider;

All fans of all clubs now throw the 'fickle' accusation around against anyone/any other set of supporters at every opportunity; it has simply become a cliché generic term of accusatory abuse. Empirically it is redundant, but that won't stop anyone using it when they think it will cause the most harm. Repetitive users of it do so as they`ve run out of logical responses or are unable to articulate a meaningful response.

It would seem to me that the use of the 'fickle finger of fate' rises and falls in direct relation to your own clubs short-term success or disappointment.

As to MoN: from my perspective you've just come off a highly successful season, with two trips to Wembley to boot and in one you came mightily close to turning over the second best team in the land and winning a trophy.

It doesn't matter who or what quality of teams you beat along the way, the whole point of Cup competitions is that over 90 mins teams there is always a chance a team from a lower division or of generally poorer quality will not only match you but raise their game way beyond any previous levels they`ve attained: this why it is labelled 'the romance of the cup' and is why Cup competitions exist. If you can`t grasp this simple truism then I`ll never understand why you`d ever follow football, let alone a team you purport to love. Any arguments against this is counter-intuitive i.e. we might as well all turn up on day 1 of a Cup Competition and simply hand them over to the Top 2 clubs in the land and be done with it.

So MoN`s had three/four years in the job to turn around an ailing club that was slowing sinking to either bottom of the league or lower-league mediocrity/obscurity.

He has spent alot of money, you all think that spending money should equal greater success, look around you, it isn`t that simple. I`d also say he`s had to spend money as he started with a lower base that some of your competition (such as us).

I believe that this season the competition for 4th was probably the fiercest in the history of the Premier League, and it`s likely to be just as tough, if not tougher next season. Man City can for the time being still spend money with impunity, but fortunately for both our clubs not for too much longer. Spending money does not give you or any club a divine right to buy a ticket to the Champions League ball.

In the meantime Spurs and Villa have invested in training facilities infrastructure (in our case some £30 mill for a state of the art training centre and academy that should be ready next year), but both clubs have done so as a priority for the future well-being of the club so as in the future to improve the likelihood of producing our own players that 'may` go some way to addressing the monetary imbalance (which ultimately equals spending and wage paying ability) between us and the clubs above us.

We are hoping to build a new bigger stadium as future increasing matchday revenues will become critical in respect of spending power. It also has knock on effects on sponsorship deals, corporate deals and even the attraction for more TV picks. As I understand you too have plans to re-develop and to increase capacity. As far as I can see from reading your accounts, if you don`t then you will never have any hope of filling the 'spending-power` gap that Villa will have should your owner ever stop subsidising your operations. Now I am perfectly sure that this investment in Villa will by necessity be curbed over coming years and that any Manager will have to maximise returns on non-playing players whenever possible, especially as squad sizes will remain restricted, it doesn`t mean however that any manager should stop themselves on investing on players that could potentially improve squad competition and Team quality, however, as we all know these investments do not always pay off. Every club and manager in the Premier League has from time to time made some howlers in this respect, and my bet is they`re keep doing so.

If there is one constant criticism I`ve seen here, it is the style of counter-attacking, long ball football you play more often than you should. I cannot defend MoN in this regard as I do feel that you are overly negative at times given the quality that you appear to have, having said that, I`d say some of the results you`ve gained against the 'Top 4' , were prior to the end of this season, results that we`d have ripped your arms off for...

My expectation is that now that Milner is in the middle, Downing settled and Young finally realising that it is not the number of crosses, but the quality that matters along with your defence and some of your fringe players you are well placed to make another step forward. Personally, I think the root of all your 'supposed` negativity revolves around your Captain - but that`s purely a subjective view of watching you when I can.

As for the criticism in regards to a recognised RB not being used, all I can say is that Cueller has probably been one of the best defensive RB`s in the PL this season, but a top-notch attacking wingback he isn`t and is probably never likely to be, but then nor is Luke Young.

As for every other position that I see debate about here, all I`d say is you can only make improvements when all the factors come together to allow you to get your man, and I`ve seen a stack of people who 'mostly` with the benefit of hindsight have pointed at Bent as a huge miss, personally I`m bemused by this as if you`d asked any Spurs supporter the season before if we`d have swapped him for Agbonlahor we would have probably ripped your arms off, and most still think that he`s a far far better prospect than Bent, but just needs that little bit more experience.

In ending, I`ll apologise for the length the post, it wasn`t what I intended when I started it! I also apologise for sticking my nose in to a 'domestic` but as I thought you were our closest rival for 4th/5th/6th place finish last season I`ve followed you on and off the pitch closely.

I also happen to believe that there are more similarities between the clubs development on and off the pitch than some 'hardcore` supporters understand or will ever agree with.

One final observation, be careful what you wish for; you have an Owner most fans would kill for, and if you honestly think that another owner is likely to come along that will invest even more in a business than he`s done and is doing, is I think the domain of the fantasists.

Purely from a business perspective you simply do not have (currently) the paying fan-base or overseas brand/following to attract the sort of billionaire owners some think you could get.

Stick with MoN, he gets it far more right than he gets it wrong, and he appears just as ambitious as ever - mind you, I freely admit I do understand why some get so upset at your style of play, but it seems to me that it's transitional as by nature MoN prefers attacking flowing football, well at least he did at Celtic.

Full debate: this thread (Forum, containts adult language)




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The Journalist

Writer: spursex Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday May 13 2010

Time: 6:07PM

Your Comments

Thats a long winded way of saying we are top4 you're not! Patronise someone else or admit you are a closet Villan !
villan57
didn't read the article...too long and who cares what spurs think? I certainly don't.
los_angeles_villan
so we are long ball? try spurs ...the stats show it lump it up to crouch!
rotter82
nteresting article and point of view from an outsider, agree with some points and not so much with others, i particularly agree with him about petrov, needs to be replaced!
goodb_2
Good article in general, but must take him too task about the long ball business, since wenger made that comment everyone seems to beleive it, but i remember when we played spuds shortly after at whl, all they did was hoof to crouch, and work off the scraps.
roehe
Some harsh responses to the article. I enjoyed the read and recognise many valid popints. It helps to hear a less subjective view than we are used to on Vital Villa. Also puts some of the negative stuff here in perspective.
JimmyG
Many thanks for that Spursex but sadly the people who really need to read it aren't going to.
pongo wearing
some really good points, I do like other fans opinions especially when well expressed. The long ball is a bit harsh, forget which thread now but it was shown more long balls from a plethora of other teams above us in the league on passing including Spurs
The Fear
As I said on the forum Spursex, I'm not usually one who warmly welcomes rival fans on 100% Villa, purely on the basis that rival fans either patronise, or go on about Villa stuff, of which they in truth know nothing about. However you put both time and thought in your posting, and actually it made a good read. Some good points, some interesting points, some things I agree with, some things I dont. A very good, constructive read, a posting I certainly enjoyed perusing.
glensider
Very good read, i think a lot of our fans need to put things into perspective sometimes. My one issue, much like everyone else, is the reference to long ball. There is a differance between counter attack and long ball, not much of a differance, and both styles are dredful to watch, but there is still a slight differance. Another, objection is to your comments regarding A Young, his best asset since we bought him up until the start of this season was the quality of his delivery and it has gone a bit off this season (Plus noone ever seems to get on the end of them when he gets a decent ball in). And finally, Petrov has been close to our best player for the last couple of seasons, he is not a very creative player but he dictates the pace of the game, starts most of our attacks going forward and never loses the ball. I think he is playing a similar, but deeper role to G Barry did, and a lot of other players do at other teams, and does it well. Regarding everything else i think you are spot on.
liamo1981
Some very unkind remarks to Spursex there. For what's it worth I thought it was a very good article and good to see a different perspective on our club. Spursex is a frequent visitor to our forums and always posts courteously and intelligently IMHO.
jonah
He talks sense, well articulated, and balanced. Thanks spursex - some people do not realise what they had until its gone.
Stig
Excellent article - and if people don't read how can they debate/ question/ disagree? Interesting view of Bent/ Gabby too. Guess the general message is: be careful what you wish for. Cannot believe some people have been calling for a new owner! If that is true, its unbelievable and shows how some fans lack any sense of reality.
Gordonsleftboot
To all those that have said "good article etc. " above. Come on, don't tell me you read through the whole thing without nodding off. Articulate, it may well be, but I gave up when the first praising of Spurs started.
Villan444
I liked the article. Balanced and well presented. Sometimes a different pair of eyes, especially those of someone who seems to talk sense, are a good thing. As Villa supporters we see all things through claret and blue spectacles. That said, sling your hook spursex, this is a site for real football fans :o) lol
voiceoftheholte
Agree with pretty much everything you say spursex, apart from one thing. This "fickle" thing - we Villa fans ARE fickle, as are Spurs fans and EVERY other football fan in the country. It stems from a little something called ambition. But as the poll clearly shows, the vasy majority of our fans realise that in MON and Randy we've got a damn fine thing going. Anyway, fortunately for us all the time is upon us when we can put petty "our clubs better than yours" arguments to one side. THE WORLD CUP IS NEARLY HERE PEOPLE and I'm bloody excited... even if I know we aren't going to win it :(
lurman
vast, i meant vast.
lurman
Good read, thanks for the sensible post spursex... at least someone can see we're moving in the right direction! Ask Liverpool & Everton fans if we've done well this year!
thorpyuk
Teams get stuck with an image and ours seems to be 'long ball'. Seems to me our problem is that we don't play enough long balls. The sort of passes that Gabby can run on to; that JC can flick on; that cause chaos in opponents' penalty areas. We spend a lot of time playing the ball backwards and forwards across the back line, from one wing to the other, into the penalty area and straight out again. Instead of which we should be using Gabby and Ashley's speed to create chances. And we need to get more of our players into attacking positions quickly to take those chances. Long ball? We need more not less.
chocolate teapot
In cup competitions you need the luck of the draw. How many times have we been dumped out of the cups by Manure in recent seasons? This season we did have the luck of the draws. We never got anybody from the top half of the league and we treated the competions with respect. That said as soon as we got somebody from the top half of the League (Chelski and Manure), we lost. The downside is that because we treated the competitions with respect, we never rotated the squads and used pretty much the same teams all the way throught the season (Guzan aside). This in itself led to the accusations of tiredness. So it leads to the question of what do fans want? Should M'ON have rotated the squad and do as we have in previous years by going out to inferior oppositon and we then may not have had the great days out we have had this season? Or did he do the right thing in going into the competitions with his strongest team? Or was it simply the luck of the draw??
voiceoftheholte
 

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