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How Can Villa Break The Monopoly?

The Daily Mail published the Premier League list of earners for prize money and tv payments yesterday and I was all ready to do an article and then the Barry thing exploded and I lost interest!

However interest restored, it doesn't really make good reading, despite Villa being 6th for the second year running, it clearly shows we had not far off HALF of what Manchester United got with Chelsea over 33million higher in the loot. Arsenal and Liverpool also came out with massive amounts and this is all down to the Champions League.

My fear is modern football is doomed, there is NO WAY unless you get an ultra (and I mean ULTRA) rich owner that you can hope to compete with the difference in income and that is BEFORE you take into account merchandising and gate receipts.

The Champions League, for me, is ruining football and although there is now some tame talk of looking to distribute the money more evenly, I just can't see it. Socialism in football is not going to catch on and so we either see the rich clubs get richer - especially when they are allowed to take on MASSIVE debt without any penalty at all - or it becomes a p*ssing contest between billionaires.

Man Utd have reportedly around 1billion in debt, Liverpool around 670 000million and even Arsenal carry huge debts for the Emirates Stadium which means they rely on a top four place each season to really push forward.

How is that a level playing field with the likes of Villa carrying no debt?

Exactly, it isn't and the rules won't change because the top four have become THE most powerful voices and why would they want change?

All a bit depressing perhaps! Modern football is baffling, I got the grumps when we sacrificed a chance of some silverware for a top 4 position this season, as did many fans. I understood the reality of it but didn't accept this was the Villa way. Turns out the gamble backfired BIG time anyway BUT you have to look and question what is the point? As a kid winning the league was the point and obviously we got to see Villa do so. We nearly did it again in the first year of the Premiership only to lose out. Then we could have pushed on but.... well we all know that part.

What I'm saying is football is now up its own arse basically. We used to start each season knowing we had a chance. Not a God given right, but a chance. Now how many teams can realistically think they can win the league when the new season kicks off? It was four, it might now be five with the money Manchester City will spend - hey, Chelsea bought the league, why should we not expect Man City to be able to do the same?

As for the rest of us? No idea, as Villa fans we aren't happy with drifting but then how do you break into the monopoly? We have good owners, we have no debt, we have a large and historic ground, the foundations are there but if the playing field isn't level - and lets face it there are many clubs who would love to be our size so it might look a bit rich a Villan moaning - then what exactly are we all doing?

Maybe a re-focus to decent cup runs could very well be the way to go?

Who knows... and if the league carries on like this, the Premier League, Football Leagues and the FA might have to start to worry because there will be many a fan going from 'who knows' to 'who cares?'


Earnings, in millions of pounds, by Premier League clubs in 2008/09 season (not including gate receipts or merchandise income)...

Lge pos Prem Lge (m) Europe (m) Cups (m) Total
1 (1) Manchester United 52.3 33.7 4.0 m90.0mm
2 (3) Chelsea 48.4 27.7 5.1 81.2m
3 (4) Arsenal 47.2 23.4 2.8 73.4m
4 (2) Liverpool 51.1 20.4 0.8 72.3m
5 (5) Everton 45.4 0 4.1 49.5m
6 (6) Aston Villa 45.2 0.4 0.8 46.4m
7 (10) Manchester City 40.7 3.7 0.2 44.6m
8 (8) Tottenham Hotspur 43.2 0.4 0.8 44.4m
9 (9) West Ham United 41.0 0 1.0 42.0m
10 (7) Fulham 40.6 0 1.0 41.6m
11 (11) Wigan Athletic 37.5 0 0.6 38.1m
12 (18) Newcastle United 37.0 0 0.2 37.2m
13 (12) Stoke City 36.8 0 0.2 37.0m
14 (13) Bolton Wanderers 36.0 0 0.2 36.2m
15 (14) Portsmouth 35.2 0 0.6 35.8m
16 (15) Blackburn Rovers 35.0 0 0.5 35.5m
17 (17) Hull City 33.0 0 1.4 34.4m
18 (16) Sunderland 33.7 0 0.3 34.0m
19 (19) Middlesbrough 31.4 0 1.4 32.8m
20 (20) WesthBromwichhAlbion 31.6 0 0.3 31.9m




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The Journalist

Writer: J P Fear Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Wednesday June 3 2009

Time: 1:45PM

Your Comments

We will not break it,Only man city will.Get used to the europa league it is all we can really hope to achieve.
lerneravfc
We will not break it,Only man city will.Get used to the europa league it is all we can really hope to achieve.
lerneravfc
and so a re-focus to win things like that, the Carling Cup and have a push for the FA Cup is therefore not an unreasonable base to take the club forward and enter a season?
The Fear
and so a re-focus to win things like that, the Carling Cup and have a push for the FA Cup is therefore not an unreasonable base to take the club forward and enter a season?
The Fear
It is really mind-boggling - basically Fear, if you and me got together and found a bank willing to lend us the money, we could use that loan and go and but a club. Putting the loan on the club!!!!! How can that happen?? There needs to be some profitability accounted for - wages as a % of turnover or something!!
deano.avfc
It is really mind-boggling - basically Fear, if you and me got together and found a bank willing to lend us the money, we could use that loan and go and but a club. Putting the loan on the club!!!!! How can that happen?? There needs to be some profitability accounted for - wages as a % of turnover or something!!
deano.avfc
Think we missed our chance of breaking the Monopoly or joining them when we failed to get 4th this season. I am sure when Randy took over he did not envisage a fight for 4th with Man City. They as much as it pains to say are going for it big time!!! They have I think the right man at the helm, young and established, he has a team of men behind him, helping him wheel and deal the right transfers and he has a list of targets, that they will get. I think in this day and age with all the hype around the Prem, that dont get me wrong we have the greatest league in the world and nothing compares to it, but it is a Billionaires playground, not a millionaires!!!!! In january this year, we should have spent 20-30 million, trying to get players in that could have secured us 4th, we were in the driving seat and Arsenal HAD lost their way a touch. We should have brought 2-4 good players in that would have lifted the roof off Villa Park and showed US as fans, ***** we really are going for 4th. That alone would have heaped the pressure from us onto the Gooners, but in the end we had a few bad results and it turned the pressure back onto us. Players started to lose their way, tiredness etc who cares, this happens in football, but not to the big 4 or soon to be big 5, they have the players they can rotate, they have the players for cover. I think as a club and fan we need to reasses, what we exactly want from our Club, are we going to forever have a go at them if they dont keep players like Barry? Or if we dont sign the Robinho and Kakas of the world, bacause I dont think that will ever happen to us and we are living in the clouds if we think it will!!!! I love this club, Manager, owner and fellow fans, but we have to face facts we are just going to have to live with the FA Cup and Europa League and be happy. I myself cant see anything wrong with winning the odd cup here or there!!!!
erv2005
Think we missed our chance of breaking the Monopoly or joining them when we failed to get 4th this season. I am sure when Randy took over he did not envisage a fight for 4th with Man City. They as much as it pains to say are going for it big time!!! They have I think the right man at the helm, young and established, he has a team of men behind him, helping him wheel and deal the right transfers and he has a list of targets, that they will get. I think in this day and age with all the hype around the Prem, that dont get me wrong we have the greatest league in the world and nothing compares to it, but it is a Billionaires playground, not a millionaires!!!!! In january this year, we should have spent 20-30 million, trying to get players in that could have secured us 4th, we were in the driving seat and Arsenal HAD lost their way a touch. We should have brought 2-4 good players in that would have lifted the roof off Villa Park and showed US as fans, ***** we really are going for 4th. That alone would have heaped the pressure from us onto the Gooners, but in the end we had a few bad results and it turned the pressure back onto us. Players started to lose their way, tiredness etc who cares, this happens in football, but not to the big 4 or soon to be big 5, they have the players they can rotate, they have the players for cover. I think as a club and fan we need to reasses, what we exactly want from our Club, are we going to forever have a go at them if they dont keep players like Barry? Or if we dont sign the Robinho and Kakas of the world, bacause I dont think that will ever happen to us and we are living in the clouds if we think it will!!!! I love this club, Manager, owner and fellow fans, but we have to face facts we are just going to have to live with the FA Cup and Europa League and be happy. I myself cant see anything wrong with winning the odd cup here or there!!!!
erv2005
agreed deano.avfc, it was actually suggested to me whilst doing the shareholders association/vfc stuff. Never in a month of sundays was my response...! But it is baffling and it is wrong, no other way to look at it.

Agree erv, a cup or two would be just splendid, the mood at the club would be quite different if we'd gone on and lifted the UEFA... not guarantees we would have but... !
The Fear
agreed deano.avfc, it was actually suggested to me whilst doing the shareholders association/vfc stuff. Never in a month of sundays was my response...! But it is baffling and it is wrong, no other way to look at it.

Agree erv, a cup or two would be just splendid, the mood at the club would be quite different if we'd gone on and lifted the UEFA... not guarantees we would have but... !
The Fear
You're absolutely correct that Champions League is ruining domestic football, but it won't change. One simple solution is to make the Champions League the "Champions League". No more 2nd, 3rd and 4th place clubs. That will bring the focus back to actually winning the domestic league and that might break the big four monopoly.
Samboney
You're absolutely correct that Champions League is ruining domestic football, but it won't change. One simple solution is to make the Champions League the "Champions League". No more 2nd, 3rd and 4th place clubs. That will bring the focus back to actually winning the domestic league and that might break the big four monopoly.
Samboney
I would be worried if I supported a top 4 club with so much debt. It only takes a few years of under performance and not making the champions league and the club could fold under the weight of the interest payments. Sort of what happened to Leeds. I understand the top 4 arn't in as fragile a state as Leeds were and it would take longer for them to fail but it is still a very real possibility. If Man City take 4th for a few years 1 of the Top 4 is going to be missing 20-30million pounds in revenue each year. Which is nothing to sneeze at. It is even worse at Chelsea were the fortunes of 1 man are closley tied to the clubs survival. English Football has had a History of Clubs dominating for several years only to fall away to be replaced by others. I just hope I live long enough for Villa's next turn.
shrike
I would be worried if I supported a top 4 club with so much debt. It only takes a few years of under performance and not making the champions league and the club could fold under the weight of the interest payments. Sort of what happened to Leeds. I understand the top 4 arn't in as fragile a state as Leeds were and it would take longer for them to fail but it is still a very real possibility. If Man City take 4th for a few years 1 of the Top 4 is going to be missing 20-30million pounds in revenue each year. Which is nothing to sneeze at. It is even worse at Chelsea were the fortunes of 1 man are closley tied to the clubs survival. English Football has had a History of Clubs dominating for several years only to fall away to be replaced by others. I just hope I live long enough for Villa's next turn.
shrike
Although it gives an insight into Villa's relative wealth, it is far from the full picture as it excludes gate-money and merchandise, which would widen the gap even further. But I am sure if you were to take Villa's gates as 0 and start comparing ground capacities, you could get a rule-of-thumb differential, of say +80% for Man U, or -25% for the Albion. Its a bit of a reminder to those who think Villa should have overcame such massive differences in income, with a single bound, that perhaps their grasp on reality is not quite what it should be. Its less a case of pie in the sky and more like 4pi r2, which is not only the area of the football sphere but also the law of football success's diminishing returns.
Steve Wade
Although it gives an insight into Villa's relative wealth, it is far from the full picture as it excludes gate-money and merchandise, which would widen the gap even further. But I am sure if you were to take Villa's gates as 0 and start comparing ground capacities, you could get a rule-of-thumb differential, of say +80% for Man U, or -25% for the Albion. Its a bit of a reminder to those who think Villa should have overcame such massive differences in income, with a single bound, that perhaps their grasp on reality is not quite what it should be. Its less a case of pie in the sky and more like 4pi r2, which is not only the area of the football sphere but also the law of football success's diminishing returns.
Steve Wade
"Man Utd have reportedly around 1billion in debt, Liverpool around 670 000million and even Arsenal carry huge debts for the Emirates Stadium which means they rely on a top four place each season to really push forward. How is that a level playing field with the likes of Villa carrying no debt?" The debt that both Manu and Liverpool have is from our current owners buying our clubs, unlike what Lerner did they used debt to buy us, it wasn't spent on buying players. Arsenal's debt was used to build a new stadium, it wasn't used to buy players.
JohnDoe
"Man Utd have reportedly around 1billion in debt, Liverpool around 670 000million and even Arsenal carry huge debts for the Emirates Stadium which means they rely on a top four place each season to really push forward. How is that a level playing field with the likes of Villa carrying no debt?" The debt that both Manu and Liverpool have is from our current owners buying our clubs, unlike what Lerner did they used debt to buy us, it wasn't spent on buying players. Arsenal's debt was used to build a new stadium, it wasn't used to buy players.
JohnDoe
*then
Saf 91
Torres was paid for by the groundsman the, JD?
Saf 91
Torres was paid for by the groundsman the, JD?
Saf 91
*then
Saf 91
@Mr. Fear, thing is, you are actually receiving MORE than you should be. TV rights are split pretty much evenly between the 20 teams, where as in countries like Spain and Italy, you get what you make. Good for the likes of Barca and Madrid, but not everyone else. The top 4 would clean up on the TV money if we had that in the PL, but unfortunately the likes of Hull and Bolton get paid 30mil for the dross they serve up every week. And they have the no-debt rules in place in France - the result is the most boring league in the world, Lyon have won it almost every year for the past decade. That's not the sort of league I want.
Saf 91
@Mr. Fear, thing is, you are actually receiving MORE than you should be. TV rights are split pretty much evenly between the 20 teams, where as in countries like Spain and Italy, you get what you make. Good for the likes of Barca and Madrid, but not everyone else. The top 4 would clean up on the TV money if we had that in the PL, but unfortunately the likes of Hull and Bolton get paid 30mil for the dross they serve up every week. And they have the no-debt rules in place in France - the result is the most boring league in the world, Lyon have won it almost every year for the past decade. That's not the sort of league I want.
Saf 91
It was paid by money generated from the club Saf 91, not by debt.
JohnDoe
It was paid by money generated from the club Saf 91, not by debt.
JohnDoe
It was paid by money generated from the club Saf 91, not by debt.
JohnDoe
It was paid by money generated from the club Saf 91, not by debt.
JohnDoe
Yup, know that Saf1, there is a distribution but the CL has blown that distrubution to bits. Totally understand that JohnDoe and that further debt not just the debt to buy the clubs were levvied at least on Man Utd. Point still remains though, clubs who are badly run in the FL go into adminstration and can't take the levels of debt, but the big boys in this league are debt ridden with no penalty.
The Fear
Yup, know that Saf1, there is a distribution but the CL has blown that distrubution to bits. Totally understand that JohnDoe and that further debt not just the debt to buy the clubs were levvied at least on Man Utd. Point still remains though, clubs who are badly run in the FL go into adminstration and can't take the levels of debt, but the big boys in this league are debt ridden with no penalty.
The Fear
Total debt for each club is much less than their current values. They haven't defaulted on any payments as of yet, and all three clubs are making a profit, so why would they incur a penalty?
JohnDoe
Total debt for each club is much less than their current values. They haven't defaulted on any payments as of yet, and all three clubs are making a profit, so why would they incur a penalty?
JohnDoe
So despite the turmoil with the owners, how come Liverpool haven't been able to be sold then for 670m or more? And if you don't think the finaces are a mess there I'm very surprised, it is a cheat the way these people have bought into these invaluable institutions.
The Fear
So despite the turmoil with the owners, how come Liverpool haven't been able to be sold then for 670m or more? And if you don't think the finaces are a mess there I'm very surprised, it is a cheat the way these people have bought into these invaluable institutions.
The Fear
They haven't been sold because our current owners are asking for too much money, especially in the current economic conditions. Look, I don't like all the debt that our idiot owners put on our club, and they've reneged on their initial promises to us by doing that, but it's not like we're in administration. The club is operating at a profit, so why would we incur a penalty? By the way, what does our debt has to do with it's not being a level playing field for the likes of Villa? Like I said before, that debt wasn't used for buying players, it was used for buying the club it self. Our squad was financed by the revenue of the club, unlike Villa for example. You spent about 50 million net last season, money that I seriously doubt that was generated from the club. I bet that your owner gave you that money, and being the decent man he is, didn't account for it as a loan, i.e. debt, given to Villa like what Abramouvich did with Chelsea for example. Now that's not a level playing field for other clubs, clubs like Everton for example who don't have a billionare owner that gifts them that amount of money.
JohnDoe
They haven't been sold because our current owners are asking for too much money, especially in the current economic conditions. Look, I don't like all the debt that our idiot owners put on our club, and they've reneged on their initial promises to us by doing that, but it's not like we're in administration. The club is operating at a profit, so why would we incur a penalty? By the way, what does our debt has to do with it's not being a level playing field for the likes of Villa? Like I said before, that debt wasn't used for buying players, it was used for buying the club it self. Our squad was financed by the revenue of the club, unlike Villa for example. You spent about 50 million net last season, money that I seriously doubt that was generated from the club. I bet that your owner gave you that money, and being the decent man he is, didn't account for it as a loan, i.e. debt, given to Villa like what Abramouvich did with Chelsea for example. Now that's not a level playing field for other clubs, clubs like Everton for example who don't have a billionare owner that gifts them that amount of money.
JohnDoe
The parent company of Liverpool FC, owned by Tom Hicks and George Gillett, lost 42.6m in the year to August 2008. BBC article -Click Here
The Fear
The parent company of Liverpool FC, owned by Tom Hicks and George Gillett, lost 42.6m in the year to August 2008. BBC article -Click Here
The Fear
It's not all doom and gloom for Liverpool, if the yanks are forced to sell Liverpool due to lack of funds there is no shortage of potential buyers. In fact, we might get a new owner who can afford to build a new stadium!
JohnDoe
It's not all doom and gloom for Liverpool, if the yanks are forced to sell Liverpool due to lack of funds there is no shortage of potential buyers. In fact, we might get a new owner who can afford to build a new stadium!
JohnDoe
yup, agree JD, someone will buy Liverpool, hopefully someone with a little bit more respect!
The Fear
yup, agree JD, someone will buy Liverpool, hopefully someone with a little bit more respect!
The Fear
Here Here.
JohnDoe
Here Here.
JohnDoe
 

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