Aston Villa News 24/7Writer: avfc48 
Date:Tuesday May 5 2009
Time: 5:06PM
UK time is: 16:45:10
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A Little Recent Villa History Lesson!
A Little recent history lesson
I know its nice to think times at Villa have never been so good, especially when we MAY reach our highest finish position since the 96/97 season when we finished 5th, but consider this little fact:
In Deadly's last reign in the PL from the 1988/99 season when we finished 17th of 20 teams, Villa have only finished out of the top 10 on 5 occasions.
90/91 we were 17th
94/95 we were 18th
02/03 we were 16th
05/06 we were 16th
06/07 we were 11th
Not bad really for the man we were all so happy to leave when Randy bought the club.
In fact during Doug's reign of penny pinching economics, regular changes of management, etcetera we actually finished 2nd twice, yes 2nd and 4th in 95/96.
Yes football has changed tremendously since, of course, costs are higher, but so is revenue, with attendances up across the board, not just at Villa Park and media money is beyond what could have been dreamed of in his first season back in 88/89,
The present Boards stated aim is to put out a side able to compete week in week out with the aim to gain regular European qualification and return those heady days of the early 80's pre Ellis, when we won the League and subsequently the European Cup.
I know it suits the everything is marvelous in the garden argument, but when fans argue that achieving the EC is nothing special, Notts Forest did it twice after all, I wonder just how low some fans will go to prove the present manager is supreme above all his predecessors. When you consider few British clubs have ever won that accolade its demeaning to suggest its no mean achievement. Its a disgrace especially to hear a Villa fan suggest it, especially when today's outfit, despite a tremendous effort have yet to achieve more than 6th a target Ellis met or beat 7 times in his second term in the PL.
The signs are good, with 3 games to go 5th and a real European qualification is a great achievement in only 3 seasons even considering the money spent, but there is some way to go yet, to achieve the 4th and
two 2nds achieved under Ellis to say nothing of the wondrous 80/81 season and of course that pinnacle in Rotterdam
avfc48
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Your Comments
trouble is the champions league has now put the 'big four' at such a great advantage and the field is no longer really level, especially when you consider the debt Liverpool and Man Utd are in. That debt should not be allowed and much like the clubs who go into admin, there should be points docked for every £10m of debt at a club.
The Fear
trouble is the champions league has now put the 'big four' at such a great advantage and the field is no longer really level, especially when you consider the debt Liverpool and Man Utd are in. That debt should not be allowed and much like the clubs who go into admin, there should be points docked for every £10m of debt at a club.
The Fear
Does debt owed to a family trust count as debt under your proposals? :o)
The Real Neil
Does debt owed to a family trust count as debt under your proposals? :o)
The Real Neil
Can see why you love Ellis, he did sign our saviour MO'N and know what a big fan you are of his!!
Villan444
Can see why you love Ellis, he did sign our saviour MO'N and know what a big fan you are of his!!
Villan444
Oh Jesus - should we even bother, I wonder ... And you point is what, avfc -- that we should have been really grateful for Doug's barren years, and that we would be better off with him back? As for your "everything is marvelous in the garden argument" and your wondering "just how low some fans will go to prove the present manager is supreme above all his predecessors", you really don't get the point, do you? If you and your bedmate would leave off whinging and carping about MON at every opportunity, deserved or not, there would not be such a reaction and there would be a more balanced debate. Capiche?
BobTheBuilder
Oh Jesus - should we even bother, I wonder ... And you point is what, avfc -- that we should have been really grateful for Doug's barren years, and that we would be better off with him back? As for your "everything is marvelous in the garden argument" and your wondering "just how low some fans will go to prove the present manager is supreme above all his predecessors", you really don't get the point, do you? If you and your bedmate would leave off whinging and carping about MON at every opportunity, deserved or not, there would not be such a reaction and there would be a more balanced debate. Capiche?
BobTheBuilder
As for you giving anyone a history lesson, I really do prefer my history to be more fact-based and balanced, thanks anyway.
BobTheBuilder
As for you giving anyone a history lesson, I really do prefer my history to be more fact-based and balanced, thanks anyway.
BobTheBuilder
And if Ellis would have not sacked so many managers maybe we would won something under his tenure. I'm afraid AV48 i watched the demise of our great club! WE was league champions and European cup holders. Then came Ellis!!!! Now that's history my friend....
gappy65
And if Ellis would have not sacked so many managers maybe we would won something under his tenure. I'm afraid AV48 i watched the demise of our great club! WE was league champions and European cup holders. Then came Ellis!!!! Now that's history my friend....
gappy65
Can I ask one question AV? Why did you choose the 88/89 season to begin your history lesson? Why not from the beginning of Ellis's reign. He was appointed chairman of a winning side. not just a winning side but a championship winning side. He then set about destroying that pedigree. RL and MON have now got the job of rebuilding 25 years of the egotist.
gappy65
Can I ask one question AV? Why did you choose the 88/89 season to begin your history lesson? Why not from the beginning of Ellis's reign. He was appointed chairman of a winning side. not just a winning side but a championship winning side. He then set about destroying that pedigree. RL and MON have now got the job of rebuilding 25 years of the egotist.
gappy65
I acctually disagree that the signs are good. The signs are in fact very bad, exactly because O'Neill is our manager. This is as good as it gets for us under O'Neill, and it isn't remotely good enough. He should go and manage Bolton or West Ham, clubs who would be delighted to challenge for qualification for the Europa League, and every so often qualify for it. I will be astonished if we finish higher than 8th next season. Far more likely is that we'll finish in the bottom half. Too many fans seem unable to see beyond the ends of their noses - much like our current manager.
Albarnista
I acctually disagree that the signs are good. The signs are in fact very bad, exactly because O'Neill is our manager. This is as good as it gets for us under O'Neill, and it isn't remotely good enough. He should go and manage Bolton or West Ham, clubs who would be delighted to challenge for qualification for the Europa League, and every so often qualify for it. I will be astonished if we finish higher than 8th next season. Far more likely is that we'll finish in the bottom half. Too many fans seem unable to see beyond the ends of their noses - much like our current manager.
Albarnista
MON must be given a chance Albamista. He did very well for half a season. Next year it may only be quarter of a season or it may be three quarters of a season and that may win us the league as others may fare worse. All maybe's except this season up until Jan. For now we must get behind him and give him a chance. I am as disappointed as the next fan about our form of the last couple of months but Rome wasn't built in a day and Randy is only about the 7th richest chairman in England now so he can't buy his way to a trophy. Armageddon is not yet here and there's always next year. If you are right and we finish midtable then the axe may be wielded but without spending 100mil plus the next manager will be left with the same squad and it will only take longer for success to arrive.
Villan444
MON must be given a chance Albamista. He did very well for half a season. Next year it may only be quarter of a season or it may be three quarters of a season and that may win us the league as others may fare worse. All maybe's except this season up until Jan. For now we must get behind him and give him a chance. I am as disappointed as the next fan about our form of the last couple of months but Rome wasn't built in a day and Randy is only about the 7th richest chairman in England now so he can't buy his way to a trophy. Armageddon is not yet here and there's always next year. If you are right and we finish midtable then the axe may be wielded but without spending 100mil plus the next manager will be left with the same squad and it will only take longer for success to arrive.
Villan444
Exactly what are the bad signs Albarnista? I think there have been disappointments and mistakes, but what are the actual bad signs?
voiceoftheholte
Exactly what are the bad signs Albarnista? I think there have been disappointments and mistakes, but what are the actual bad signs?
voiceoftheholte
If we sacked MON anytime in the next 6 months, I think we'd become the poisoned chalice that is NUFC. We need to give MON another season. If we make a decline, I think we need to make an honest assessment on whether that is down to poor man management and decisions by MON or whether it's because we've not the firepower to compete with the other big teams in the league. I'm not sure besides the big mistake of Moscow what people feel MON is doing so drastically wrong.
johnnyuk
If we sacked MON anytime in the next 6 months, I think we'd become the poisoned chalice that is NUFC. We need to give MON another season. If we make a decline, I think we need to make an honest assessment on whether that is down to poor man management and decisions by MON or whether it's because we've not the firepower to compete with the other big teams in the league. I'm not sure besides the big mistake of Moscow what people feel MON is doing so drastically wrong.
johnnyuk
There aren't any VOTH - the guy just hates MON - nocmatter what MON does. MON has made mistakes - name me ONE manager that hasn't - me thinks playing fifa09 all day has muddled Albarnista's brain. ;o)
nazvfc
There aren't any VOTH - the guy just hates MON - nocmatter what MON does. MON has made mistakes - name me ONE manager that hasn't - me thinks playing fifa09 all day has muddled Albarnista's brain. ;o)
nazvfc
A reasonable point made by 48 but going over the Ellis years is now pointless. The consortium of which he was part of at the end of the 60's was key to saving the club and putting it back on the map again. When he left in 79 that should have been it. But no, his ego got in the way. He then returned in 1982 after we had won the League and European Cup to take the best club in Europe to relegation/promotion and 2 league cup wins. Cheers Doug!!! The apathy from the Ellis years still stinks in many places (you only have to read the negativity of many posters) to realise that the Boards biggest off field challenge is to revitalise the intimidating place that Villa Park used to be. The editor of this site campaigned for years for his removal from Villa Park. However he now complains when I constantly endeavor for increased passionate and vocal support at VP. Pot and kettle!
voiceoftheholte
A reasonable point made by 48 but going over the Ellis years is now pointless. The consortium of which he was part of at the end of the 60's was key to saving the club and putting it back on the map again. When he left in 79 that should have been it. But no, his ego got in the way. He then returned in 1982 after we had won the League and European Cup to take the best club in Europe to relegation/promotion and 2 league cup wins. Cheers Doug!!! The apathy from the Ellis years still stinks in many places (you only have to read the negativity of many posters) to realise that the Boards biggest off field challenge is to revitalise the intimidating place that Villa Park used to be. The editor of this site campaigned for years for his removal from Villa Park. However he now complains when I constantly endeavor for increased passionate and vocal support at VP. Pot and kettle!
voiceoftheholte
Interestingly I asked him (Albernista) in a previous article where his season ticket is for, because he strikes me as a fan of the internet, have it all now generation. I would guess at him saying he is a regular because he has been to a few games, but am happy to stand corrected. It is usually those who contribute the least who moan the most.
voiceoftheholte
Interestingly I asked him (Albernista) in a previous article where his season ticket is for, because he strikes me as a fan of the internet, have it all now generation. I would guess at him saying he is a regular because he has been to a few games, but am happy to stand corrected. It is usually those who contribute the least who moan the most.
voiceoftheholte
Well said voiceoftheholte, this guy Albernista is a real clown, prob doesnt go to may games at all or even played football himself or he is a wind up merchant blue nose in disguise. Mon is a good manager and he is just jealous cos he keeps gettin relegated in championship manager. UP THE VILLA
astonsteve
Well said voiceoftheholte, this guy Albernista is a real clown, prob doesnt go to may games at all or even played football himself or he is a wind up merchant blue nose in disguise. Mon is a good manager and he is just jealous cos he keeps gettin relegated in championship manager. UP THE VILLA
astonsteve
Astonsteve and VOTH, please feel free to check out the http://www.myspace.com/albarnista. Does the L shape that is being made by the hand mean anything????
davealbarnista
Astonsteve and VOTH, please feel free to check out the http://www.myspace.com/albarnista. Does the L shape that is being made by the hand mean anything????
davealbarnista
Lay off him chaps, He might slit his wrists ;) UTV
medzy
Lay off him chaps, He might slit his wrists ;) UTV
medzy
astonsteve, my thoughts exactly! One of the previous posts here (Match stats from Hull game) was posted by me as this muppet Albarnista just loves to slag off MON even if the post is not about him! Here is a challenge to all on here, let's see if you can find a post from this er.......bluenose wannabe that doesn't include a rant against MON.
holte ender 1969
astonsteve, my thoughts exactly! One of the previous posts here (Match stats from Hull game) was posted by me as this muppet Albarnista just loves to slag off MON even if the post is not about him! Here is a challenge to all on here, let's see if you can find a post from this er.......bluenose wannabe that doesn't include a rant against MON.
holte ender 1969
Who's arguing the European Cup is worthless? I haven't seen too many Villa fans on this site saying such a thing. Oh, by the way though, the competition changed it's name a good few years ago - I believe it's now called the 'Champions League' or something. How times have changed eh? Sounds like you may have missed that - maybe you haven't noticed some of the changes that have taken place over the last 10 or 15 years? In the years you quote when we finished in the upper reaches of the league there was nowhere near the same amount of financial muscle distributed so unevenly in the league. This has nothing to do with attendances, and everything to do with teams having massive worldwide exposure from their ongoing and repeated inclusion in said competition. Oh, as well as being run well as businesses, getting their global marketing right, and not having a Chairman spending his time quibbling over the cost of buying a can of mosquito spray for the players when touring pre-season. Jesus...in the year we finished 2nd Norwich City were 3rd, and QPR 5th, all above Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Ridiculous comparisons, as those days are long gone and things have moved on just a tad. Thanks for the history lesson though.
YatesyVillain
Who's arguing the European Cup is worthless? I haven't seen too many Villa fans on this site saying such a thing. Oh, by the way though, the competition changed it's name a good few years ago - I believe it's now called the 'Champions League' or something. How times have changed eh? Sounds like you may have missed that - maybe you haven't noticed some of the changes that have taken place over the last 10 or 15 years? In the years you quote when we finished in the upper reaches of the league there was nowhere near the same amount of financial muscle distributed so unevenly in the league. This has nothing to do with attendances, and everything to do with teams having massive worldwide exposure from their ongoing and repeated inclusion in said competition. Oh, as well as being run well as businesses, getting their global marketing right, and not having a Chairman spending his time quibbling over the cost of buying a can of mosquito spray for the players when touring pre-season. Jesus...in the year we finished 2nd Norwich City were 3rd, and QPR 5th, all above Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Ridiculous comparisons, as those days are long gone and things have moved on just a tad. Thanks for the history lesson though.
YatesyVillain
The Moscow debacle, that screwed the fans and the players in equal measure, and exposed a lack of belief AND a lack of foresight and organisation on O'Neill's part. The signing of players who have then not been given a chance, whether that be in terms of being played in an unfamiliar position, or not being played at all. The signing of players who HAVE been given a chance, and have failed. The impending departure of Gareth Barry, a player who might not be bigger than the club, but is a damn sight bigger than O'Neill. (The suggestion that Barry owes O'Neill anything is utterly ludicrous. It's actually the other way round.) The impending retirement of Martin Laursen. replacing both of these players is absolutely crucial for us to mertely stand still. Doing so would be very difficult even if we had a manager who knew what he was doing in the transfer market. Given our manager is O'Neill, we don't have a prayer. Obviously we don't have even the slightest chance of finishing in the top 4 next season. Perhaps when some of you catch up and realise that finishing higher than 8th isn't going to happen, you too may wake up to the fact that O'Neill isn't up to the job. Unless the job is to keep fans with no ambition, and who are happy with mid-table medicority (and not even the laughable consolation of the Europa League), happy...
Albarnista
The Moscow debacle, that screwed the fans and the players in equal measure, and exposed a lack of belief AND a lack of foresight and organisation on O'Neill's part. The signing of players who have then not been given a chance, whether that be in terms of being played in an unfamiliar position, or not being played at all. The signing of players who HAVE been given a chance, and have failed. The impending departure of Gareth Barry, a player who might not be bigger than the club, but is a damn sight bigger than O'Neill. (The suggestion that Barry owes O'Neill anything is utterly ludicrous. It's actually the other way round.) The impending retirement of Martin Laursen. replacing both of these players is absolutely crucial for us to mertely stand still. Doing so would be very difficult even if we had a manager who knew what he was doing in the transfer market. Given our manager is O'Neill, we don't have a prayer. Obviously we don't have even the slightest chance of finishing in the top 4 next season. Perhaps when some of you catch up and realise that finishing higher than 8th isn't going to happen, you too may wake up to the fact that O'Neill isn't up to the job. Unless the job is to keep fans with no ambition, and who are happy with mid-table medicority (and not even the laughable consolation of the Europa League), happy...
Albarnista
Albarnista you have just summed up how ill informed and uneducated you are in one post. Thank you becuause it saves the rest of us having to post a reply and we can all have a good laugh at you. However, I take your lack of response to where your season ticket is, or even how many times you go to Villa Park, as an admission that you are not even a fan at all. Find your rock fella and get back under it and leave this site to Villa supporters.
voiceoftheholte
Albarnista you have just summed up how ill informed and uneducated you are in one post. Thank you becuause it saves the rest of us having to post a reply and we can all have a good laugh at you. However, I take your lack of response to where your season ticket is, or even how many times you go to Villa Park, as an admission that you are not even a fan at all. Find your rock fella and get back under it and leave this site to Villa supporters.
voiceoftheholte
I think it is a very good article, not surprised in the least to see so many having ago at 48 though, he has of course sad something bad about the messiah, hang him, hang him!!! The fact is as 48 rightly says, finishing 5th is a good achievement, and O'Neill has taken us there full credit to him, heres to many more seasons of the same etc. I think 48's point is that some are questioning aspects of O'Neill's managerial ability and are then hounded by the MON is God Squad, with silly statements such as "Villa have never had it so good", er we have. 5th is great, but we have had better seasons, FACT. That is the fact, cannot argue with it. Its FACT. However, we have had a good season, not the best ever in the history of the club, but a good season non-the-less.
young_jonah
I think it is a very good article, not surprised in the least to see so many having ago at 48 though, he has of course sad something bad about the messiah, hang him, hang him!!! The fact is as 48 rightly says, finishing 5th is a good achievement, and O'Neill has taken us there full credit to him, heres to many more seasons of the same etc. I think 48's point is that some are questioning aspects of O'Neill's managerial ability and are then hounded by the MON is God Squad, with silly statements such as "Villa have never had it so good", er we have. 5th is great, but we have had better seasons, FACT. That is the fact, cannot argue with it. Its FACT. However, we have had a good season, not the best ever in the history of the club, but a good season non-the-less.
young_jonah
Albarnista, your silence is deafening.
voiceoftheholte
Agree with that post jonah. M'ON musn't be held up as some managerial God until he has done something to be worthy of that status. He has though made year on year improvements to a club that was on the verge of relegation. We must now not be frightened of stability. The attitude of some, seem to want us back in the 3 year manager cycle that was the norm under the Ellis years.
voiceoftheholte
Albarnista, your silence is deafening.
voiceoftheholte
Agree with that post jonah. M'ON musn't be held up as some managerial God until he has done something to be worthy of that status. He has though made year on year improvements to a club that was on the verge of relegation. We must now not be frightened of stability. The attitude of some, seem to want us back in the 3 year manager cycle that was the norm under the Ellis years.
voiceoftheholte
The Fear, the debt that both Liverpool and Manu have resulted from our current owners buying our clubs, it isn't a result of spending a lot of money on players and the like. It's not the same as the clubs that went into administration as they spent beyond their means on player transfers, wages etc...
JohnDoe
The Fear, the debt that both Liverpool and Manu have resulted from our current owners buying our clubs, it isn't a result of spending a lot of money on players and the like. It's not the same as the clubs that went into administration as they spent beyond their means on player transfers, wages etc...
JohnDoe
Albarnista, If you do actually attend games at VP you will obviously not be staying behind after the final game of the season (btw that's Newcastle). As MON's players and staff take their traditional walk around the pitch you will have long gone, because it has been such a disastrous season. As the referee blows the final whistle you will be in your local, sipping your lemonade and talking to whoever is foolish enough to listen to you (AVFC48, YJ maybe) about what a terrible season we have had. I am confident MON will assemble a team to try and break the top 4 again next season. That is of course unless the best manager we have had in years has been driven away by the likes of you and your poisonous campaign...UTV
sixfoottwoeyesofblue
Albarnista, If you do actually attend games at VP you will obviously not be staying behind after the final game of the season (btw that's Newcastle). As MON's players and staff take their traditional walk around the pitch you will have long gone, because it has been such a disastrous season. As the referee blows the final whistle you will be in your local, sipping your lemonade and talking to whoever is foolish enough to listen to you (AVFC48, YJ maybe) about what a terrible season we have had. I am confident MON will assemble a team to try and break the top 4 again next season. That is of course unless the best manager we have had in years has been driven away by the likes of you and your poisonous campaign...UTV
sixfoottwoeyesofblue
sixfoottwoeyesofblue, trying reading my comments before labelling me whatever you are indeed labelling me!?! I have said its been a good season, may I ask you something? Are fans of any club allowed to have an opinion on their manager or do we all have to be blind followers? Yes he has done a good job, no denying, but he is far from perfect, that is my point, and if that makes me a terrible fan then so be it, it certainly beats having my head up the guys ars*
young_jonah
sixfoottwoeyesofblue, trying reading my comments before labelling me whatever you are indeed labelling me!?! I have said its been a good season, may I ask you something? Are fans of any club allowed to have an opinion on their manager or do we all have to be blind followers? Yes he has done a good job, no denying, but he is far from perfect, that is my point, and if that makes me a terrible fan then so be it, it certainly beats having my head up the guys ars*
young_jonah
I will freely acknowledge that I am not a season ticket supporter, and this, by one valid measurement, makes me a lesser fan than those who are season ticket holders and who attend matches regularly. However, this doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about. I have seen plenty of games this season on the telly, and watching the games in calmer surroundings has enabled me to notice things that others seemingly haven't. There is something profoundly wrong with the mentality of our team. They lacked the belief and conviction to take the Champion's League football that was on offer, and this lack of belief comes from the top. Read O'Neill's comments. He is as negative as I am! I don't believe O'Neill has what it takes to make us a top 4 side, and neither, apparently does he. And the eveidence is that, after Moscow, neither do the players. O'Neill in effect said that Villa are a small-time club who couldn't afford to compete on a Thursday in Moscow because we had the daunting prospect of Stoke on the Sunday, and that's shown in subsequent performances. Even with Laursen injured, we were perfectly capable of maintaing a six point gap over Arsenal, because our players are good enough, yet we are now 10 points behind them. If you don't believe you can do something, you won't do it, unless someone does it for you. Credit to Arsenal, they tried their very best to make us into a top 4 team this season, but they just fell short.
Albarnista
I will freely acknowledge that I am not a season ticket supporter, and this, by one valid measurement, makes me a lesser fan than those who are season ticket holders and who attend matches regularly. However, this doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about. I have seen plenty of games this season on the telly, and watching the games in calmer surroundings has enabled me to notice things that others seemingly haven't. There is something profoundly wrong with the mentality of our team. They lacked the belief and conviction to take the Champion's League football that was on offer, and this lack of belief comes from the top. Read O'Neill's comments. He is as negative as I am! I don't believe O'Neill has what it takes to make us a top 4 side, and neither, apparently does he. And the eveidence is that, after Moscow, neither do the players. O'Neill in effect said that Villa are a small-time club who couldn't afford to compete on a Thursday in Moscow because we had the daunting prospect of Stoke on the Sunday, and that's shown in subsequent performances. Even with Laursen injured, we were perfectly capable of maintaing a six point gap over Arsenal, because our players are good enough, yet we are now 10 points behind them. If you don't believe you can do something, you won't do it, unless someone does it for you. Credit to Arsenal, they tried their very best to make us into a top 4 team this season, but they just fell short.
Albarnista
YJ - It is not about being a blind follower, IMO it's about having a balanced view. Trying to attract top quality players to a club that has not been able to offer CL footbal is difficult. We do not have the financial muscle that those above us do, and I agree with MON, particularly in the current downturn, that paying unrealistic prices for players is not a sensible policy (unless you are Man City of course). Injuries (some long-term), Suspensions and players out of form has meant that MON has had to work with what he has got. Comments about how MON would cope at Man Utd being laughable is a cheap shot, the circumstances are completely different. We are progressing and IMO, MON is the right man to continue that progression.
sixfoottwoeyesofblue
YJ - It is not about being a blind follower, IMO it's about having a balanced view. Trying to attract top quality players to a club that has not been able to offer CL footbal is difficult. We do not have the financial muscle that those above us do, and I agree with MON, particularly in the current downturn, that paying unrealistic prices for players is not a sensible policy (unless you are Man City of course). Injuries (some long-term), Suspensions and players out of form has meant that MON has had to work with what he has got. Comments about how MON would cope at Man Utd being laughable is a cheap shot, the circumstances are completely different. We are progressing and IMO, MON is the right man to continue that progression.
sixfoottwoeyesofblue
An admission at last! A 'supporter' who doesn't go to the games? What sort of supporter is that? If all your information comes from TV it just shows what happens when you listen to Andy Gray too much. Your brain turns to mush. Push off and leave us SUPPORTERS alone.
chocolate teapot
An admission at last! A 'supporter' who doesn't go to the games? What sort of supporter is that? If all your information comes from TV it just shows what happens when you listen to Andy Gray too much. Your brain turns to mush. Push off and leave us SUPPORTERS alone.
chocolate teapot
this is all getting a little silly now, I could have told you Albarnista didn't go to games from his views on MON and GB. He's still entitled to his opinion and hopefully he'll come back next year and eat humble pie.
AVbornandbred
this is all getting a little silly now, I could have told you Albarnista didn't go to games from his views on MON and GB. He's still entitled to his opinion and hopefully he'll come back next year and eat humble pie.
AVbornandbred
AVbornandbred, I am well aware of my views on Gareth Barry, but I'm wondering whether you are. For my money, he is the best player we've had in the last ten years. I acknowledge that our views may well differ regarding O'Neill, but surely we agree about Barry?? As for coming back and eating humble pie, I don't think that's something any Villa fan wants to see. Bottom half finishes, and, heaven forfend, relegation battles are surely not what we can look forward to under O'Neill. At least not next season.
Albarnista
AVbornandbred, I am well aware of my views on Gareth Barry, but I'm wondering whether you are. For my money, he is the best player we've had in the last ten years. I acknowledge that our views may well differ regarding O'Neill, but surely we agree about Barry?? As for coming back and eating humble pie, I don't think that's something any Villa fan wants to see. Bottom half finishes, and, heaven forfend, relegation battles are surely not what we can look forward to under O'Neill. At least not next season.
Albarnista
Albarnista that just proves it, ur a plonker and a nerd, this is prob the only interaction u get we can do without supporters like you. UP THE VILLA AND MON.
astonsteve
Albarnista that just proves it, ur a plonker and a nerd, this is prob the only interaction u get we can do without supporters like you. UP THE VILLA AND MON.
astonsteve
A couple of things to consider when evaluating this season,
1) MON has not been at a big club before (Celtic don't count as they only have 4 games a year) so he is learning as he goes - not surprisingly he has made mistakes
2) the squad is young and most of the players are learning and gaining experience - again no surprise there have been dips in performance
3) MON is building a squad ie it is getting bigger and better - the loss of key players and lack of strength in depth has cost us dear this year but Rome was not built in a day, Spuds and the barcodes are perfect examples of how simply throwing star players together doesn't work. All of the top four took years to assemble their teams / squads including Chelsea.
4) two consecutive top 6 finishes demostrates consistency and is a foundation for success rather than the isolated successes of previous years that were inevitably followed by relegation dog fights.
5) We are considerably closer to the top four than last year in terms of ability. Independant reviews didn't consider us a threat to the top four last season, they do now.
6) The off field infrastructure has been developed this year, the fan base has grown, revenues are up and the whole club is a more attractive proposition which should make attracting new players an easier task this summer compared to last.
Overall I'd say a pretty good season and steady if unspectacular progress.
AVbornandbred
A couple of things to consider when evaluating this season,
1) MON has not been at a big club before (Celtic don't count as they only have 4 games a year) so he is learning as he goes - not surprisingly he has made mistakes
2) the squad is young and most of the players are learning and gaining experience - again no surprise there have been dips in performance
3) MON is building a squad ie it is getting bigger and better - the loss of key players and lack of strength in depth has cost us dear this year but Rome was not built in a day, Spuds and the barcodes are perfect examples of how simply throwing star players together doesn't work. All of the top four took years to assemble their teams / squads including Chelsea.
4) two consecutive top 6 finishes demostrates consistency and is a foundation for success rather than the isolated successes of previous years that were inevitably followed by relegation dog fights.
5) We are considerably closer to the top four than last year in terms of ability. Independant reviews didn't consider us a threat to the top four last season, they do now.
6) The off field infrastructure has been developed this year, the fan base has grown, revenues are up and the whole club is a more attractive proposition which should make attracting new players an easier task this summer compared to last.
Overall I'd say a pretty good season and steady if unspectacular progress.
AVbornandbred
Well said AVbornandbred i agree. UP THE VILLA
astonsteve
Well said AVbornandbred i agree. UP THE VILLA
astonsteve
Albarnista,YoungJonah,Avfc48: Of course you are all entitled to you opinions. But justifition for them seems to be far more difficult. We are currently in 5th place, we are playing in Europe next year tht is a fact. The top four are established. Not only are they establshed, but dominating the Champions league. All four reached the quarters, three reached the semi's and one so fa has reached the final. Last year two fought it out for the trophy. so an element of perspective and patience is requred. It has never been more difficult to break the domination of the top four!!!! But we are in the best possition to achieve this seemingly unachievable feat. We almost did it, but we had a dip in form, couple that with long term injuries and suspensions, and we narrowly missed out. But we are embryonic compared to ManU, Chelski, The Arses. and the Scousers. Our time will come, when it will be five or six fighting it out for CL, of that I have no doubt. UTV
gappy65
Albarnista,YoungJonah,Avfc48: Of course you are all entitled to you opinions. But justifition for them seems to be far more difficult. We are currently in 5th place, we are playing in Europe next year tht is a fact. The top four are established. Not only are they establshed, but dominating the Champions league. All four reached the quarters, three reached the semi's and one so fa has reached the final. Last year two fought it out for the trophy. so an element of perspective and patience is requred. It has never been more difficult to break the domination of the top four!!!! But we are in the best possition to achieve this seemingly unachievable feat. We almost did it, but we had a dip in form, couple that with long term injuries and suspensions, and we narrowly missed out. But we are embryonic compared to ManU, Chelski, The Arses. and the Scousers. Our time will come, when it will be five or six fighting it out for CL, of that I have no doubt. UTV
gappy65
We really need to get passed this " you don;t attend every game therefore ***** off" attitude. What is it with you morons??? This is my club and leave me alone?? It is bullsh it that you can't have as much knowledge, understanding and indeed passion about our great club because you don't pi ss in the VP bogs every home game. For f uc ks sake get some perspective will you.
nottinghamvillain
We really need to get passed this " you don;t attend every game therefore ***** off" attitude. What is it with you morons??? This is my club and leave me alone?? It is bullsh it that you can't have as much knowledge, understanding and indeed passion about our great club because you don't pi ss in the VP bogs every home game. For f uc ks sake get some perspective will you.
nottinghamvillain
I will agree with Albarnista on one point - just cos you don't have a season ticket doesn't make you any less of a supporter. I moved to Australia years ago but I used to go to every home game, I've supported Villa my whole life so far and always will, it's a family business for me (my great grandad used to play for Villa). He's entitled to his point of view as much as the rest of us. Unfortunately there the agreement ends. What exactly have Villa done since the glory days of 80-81 ? Who took over the helm after we won in Europe ? Why do we have trouble attracting the *very* best players we all want ? One answer - Doug Ellis. Randy and O'Neill still have an uphill task just to repair the damage that man has done to our club. To all those naysayers who are moaning about the fact we haven't won the PL or qualified for the CL or whatever it is you want to moan about, consider the facts. The football landscape is so very different to when Villa were top dogs. The Big 4 are called that because they are a virtual monopoly - on results, on getting the best players, even (I'm gagging) on quality football week in week out. How do you compete against that stranglehold ? Well, we've tried. We did Chelsea last season and we did Arsenal this season. In the end we didn't break the top 4 because we lacked the firepower and the depth we needed as the season wore on. Is this MON's fault ? Randy's ? Ask yourself this - if you were the owner/manager of one of the big 4 or a big European side, whose players we wanted, would you want to sell them to up and coming opposition ? Of course you wouldn't. Our "poor" transfer record has less to do with MON's inability to land quality players, and more to do with a) the damage Doug did to our reputation, and b) the fact the only an idiot would sell his rival his best weaponry. WE HAVE DONE WELL THIS SEASON and if we regroup, re-invest in some key positions and maybe get some cover for the sake of it - the one thing I do disagree with MON on, we NEED that cover - then we'll be back next season and challenging again. Thankyou and goodnight.
ExpatVillaShirt
I will agree with Albarnista on one point - just cos you don't have a season ticket doesn't make you any less of a supporter. I moved to Australia years ago but I used to go to every home game, I've supported Villa my whole life so far and always will, it's a family business for me (my great grandad used to play for Villa). He's entitled to his point of view as much as the rest of us. Unfortunately there the agreement ends. What exactly have Villa done since the glory days of 80-81 ? Who took over the helm after we won in Europe ? Why do we have trouble attracting the *very* best players we all want ? One answer - Doug Ellis. Randy and O'Neill still have an uphill task just to repair the damage that man has done to our club. To all those naysayers who are moaning about the fact we haven't won the PL or qualified for the CL or whatever it is you want to moan about, consider the facts. The football landscape is so very different to when Villa were top dogs. The Big 4 are called that because they are a virtual monopoly - on results, on getting the best players, even (I'm gagging) on quality football week in week out. How do you compete against that stranglehold ? Well, we've tried. We did Chelsea last season and we did Arsenal this season. In the end we didn't break the top 4 because we lacked the firepower and the depth we needed as the season wore on. Is this MON's fault ? Randy's ? Ask yourself this - if you were the owner/manager of one of the big 4 or a big European side, whose players we wanted, would you want to sell them to up and coming opposition ? Of course you wouldn't. Our "poor" transfer record has less to do with MON's inability to land quality players, and more to do with a) the damage Doug did to our reputation, and b) the fact the only an idiot would sell his rival his best weaponry. WE HAVE DONE WELL THIS SEASON and if we regroup, re-invest in some key positions and maybe get some cover for the sake of it - the one thing I do disagree with MON on, we NEED that cover - then we'll be back next season and challenging again. Thankyou and goodnight.
ExpatVillaShirt
Of course it doesnt matter that you dont have a season ticket, the point is, is to support your club and stop slagging off the manager, although attending sum games in a season should be important, unless u live miles away. UP THE VILLA.
astonsteve
Of course it doesnt matter that you dont have a season ticket, the point is, is to support your club and stop slagging off the manager, although attending sum games in a season should be important, unless u live miles away. UP THE VILLA.
astonsteve
At least jonah saw the real picture, probably because he's not blinded by the O'Neill rules causation.
There are plenty of 'fans' who have been saying its the best of times, in fact in the forum there is a thread on it, full of happy clappers.
As Fear will attest I hated Ellis, probably for longer than most of you have been alive, but the fact remains, so far since our return to the PL, after the desecration by Ellis of our European Cup winning side(and that dickhead was what we won, not its modern day equivalent), we have had far better times. We can compete with the top 4 O'Neill spent more than most in Europe last summer, which included the magic top 4 in the PL. What would the likes of Moyes or Mourinho have done with the 50 mill plus spent by MON. O'Neill has done well to get us part way back to a reasonable top of middle situation, but recent history shows its been done before. That's afct, not idealistic rhetorical drivel as much of the anti 48 posts above are.
Fact, nothing more and there is only 2 reasons why we can't break into a top 4 where this season a team of reserves full of injuries went from 11 points behind to 10 points ahead of us. In Lerner we have a stable wealthy owner whose ambition is to take us into regular European qualifications so that one day we will again live the success of the early 80's. He has the ambition, sorry to see so many O'Neill luvvies don't, just because they know he doesn't have the ability to achieve it.
avfc48
At least jonah saw the real picture, probably because he's not blinded by the O'Neill rules causation.
There are plenty of 'fans' who have been saying its the best of times, in fact in the forum there is a thread on it, full of happy clappers.
As Fear will attest I hated Ellis, probably for longer than most of you have been alive, but the fact remains, so far since our return to the PL, after the desecration by Ellis of our European Cup winning side(and that dickhead was what we won, not its modern day equivalent), we have had far better times. We can compete with the top 4 O'Neill spent more than most in Europe last summer, which included the magic top 4 in the PL. What would the likes of Moyes or Mourinho have done with the 50 mill plus spent by MON. O'Neill has done well to get us part way back to a reasonable top of middle situation, but recent history shows its been done before. That's afct, not idealistic rhetorical drivel as much of the anti 48 posts above are.
Fact, nothing more and there is only 2 reasons why we can't break into a top 4 where this season a team of reserves full of injuries went from 11 points behind to 10 points ahead of us. In Lerner we have a stable wealthy owner whose ambition is to take us into regular European qualifications so that one day we will again live the success of the early 80's. He has the ambition, sorry to see so many O'Neill luvvies don't, just because they know he doesn't have the ability to achieve it.
avfc48
I think some villa supporters are being negative because they have had nothing to be positive about for so long, it's taking a few of them a long time to come round. We have loads to be positive about, 5th in the league, european football again next season, good manager and great chairman. Our profile has certainly been raised this season so this is bound to attract the attention of good players. A good summer on it's way! How long did it take SAF to win his first title at UTD?
Mutley73
I think some villa supporters are being negative because they have had nothing to be positive about for so long, it's taking a few of them a long time to come round. We have loads to be positive about, 5th in the league, european football again next season, good manager and great chairman. Our profile has certainly been raised this season so this is bound to attract the attention of good players. A good summer on it's way! How long did it take SAF to win his first title at UTD?
Mutley73
Well said Mutley73, is avfc Albarnistas Dad, or bum chum,or both, UP THE VILLA.
astonsteve
Well said Mutley73, is avfc Albarnistas Dad, or bum chum,or both, UP THE VILLA.
astonsteve
It's getting ridiculous.....cheer up gents, maybe you'll find a quid on the floor today if you keep walking around with your heads bowed down. I guess then though you'll moan that it's not a fiver!?
YatesyVillain
It's getting ridiculous.....cheer up gents, maybe you'll find a quid on the floor today if you keep walking around with your heads bowed down. I guess then though you'll moan that it's not a fiver!?
YatesyVillain
astonsteve and plenty of others, stick to the debating the points and not the posters please.
mike_field
astonsteve and plenty of others, stick to the debating the points and not the posters please.
mike_field
Vital Villa seems to be splitting into gangs now. We will have the Bloose to moan about and banter with next season. Save it till then....
Villan444
Vital Villa seems to be splitting into gangs now. We will have the Bloose to moan about and banter with next season. Save it till then....
Villan444
Why does everyone feel the need to berate a fan that points out the simple truth, that although things are improving MON has a long way to go yet to achieve parity with the results achieved under the man most blame for the gradual "demise" of Aston Villa? I don't see him bigging up Ellis or anyone else and on this occasion he's not even having a go at O'Neill, just pointing out to those that can see no wrong in anything O'Neill does and will never criticise, that we have achieved better results with other, so called lesser, managers working under far tougher constraints. You know what guys, he's right and with any luck and a lot of hard work O'Neill will go on to achieve parity with the Ellis years and surpass them on the way to parity with the 1980 to 1982 seasons.
Villan Of The North
Why does everyone feel the need to berate a fan that points out the simple truth, that although things are improving MON has a long way to go yet to achieve parity with the results achieved under the man most blame for the gradual "demise" of Aston Villa? I don't see him bigging up Ellis or anyone else and on this occasion he's not even having a go at O'Neill, just pointing out to those that can see no wrong in anything O'Neill does and will never criticise, that we have achieved better results with other, so called lesser, managers working under far tougher constraints. You know what guys, he's right and with any luck and a lot of hard work O'Neill will go on to achieve parity with the Ellis years and surpass them on the way to parity with the 1980 to 1982 seasons.
Villan Of The North
I used to be a regular at Villa Park and indeed quite a few away games but moved to Australia with work 5 yrs ago. Since then I've maybe attended 3 or 4 games at VP on the odd occasion where I've been back to visit the UK. Nevertheless, I get up in the middle of the night every weekend to sit on the sofa in front of the villa match in my home shirt (thank Paul Mcgrath for Foxtels multiview so I can always watch the villa!). I read every article on this site, the official site and many others. I pick up whatever I can from the BBC site, UK newspapers etc etc as well as spending hours on the phone to my UK based mates discussing post-match/transfers/etc. So Chocolate Teapot - I'm not a real 'SUPPORTER'? How dare you assume that because people cannot get to matches for whatever reason, they are any less of a supporter than you.
AVFC4ME
I used to be a regular at Villa Park and indeed quite a few away games but moved to Australia with work 5 yrs ago. Since then I've maybe attended 3 or 4 games at VP on the odd occasion where I've been back to visit the UK. Nevertheless, I get up in the middle of the night every weekend to sit on the sofa in front of the villa match in my home shirt (thank Paul Mcgrath for Foxtels multiview so I can always watch the villa!). I read every article on this site, the official site and many others. I pick up whatever I can from the BBC site, UK newspapers etc etc as well as spending hours on the phone to my UK based mates discussing post-match/transfers/etc. So Chocolate Teapot - I'm not a real 'SUPPORTER'? How dare you assume that because people cannot get to matches for whatever reason, they are any less of a supporter than you.
AVFC4ME
Also just wanted to say that I usually find Young Jonah's comments fair and balanced (and wouldn't put him in the same camp as avfc48 and albarnista who are clearly stuck in an anti-MON rut). Generally all YJ is asking is why shouldn't we question, why shouldn't we think 'what if?' and what could we acheive? All good for debate.
AVFC4ME
Also just wanted to say that I usually find Young Jonah's comments fair and balanced (and wouldn't put him in the same camp as avfc48 and albarnista who are clearly stuck in an anti-MON rut). Generally all YJ is asking is why shouldn't we question, why shouldn't we think 'what if?' and what could we acheive? All good for debate.
AVFC4ME
VoTN I think what gets people riled up is being given a history lesson from someone who is about as one-eyed as my trouser snake. Also, as pointed out, to finish where we have in this ultra competitive league, at this point in time - and in the timeframe we've had to date - is a pretty significant achievement. Very few (if any) supporters have come on here and said MON can do no wrong - we all know he's not perfect, he makes mistakes and gets stuff wrong - yes of course he does. But don't come on here, slag him off to the hilt and denegrate his achievement of taking this side from 16th to 11th to 6th to maybe 5th in just a few short seasons. I sincerely doubt many that could have done much better in such a short period of time. Give the guy a break.
YatesyVillain
VoTN I think what gets people riled up is being given a history lesson from someone who is about as one-eyed as my trouser snake. Also, as pointed out, to finish where we have in this ultra competitive league, at this point in time - and in the timeframe we've had to date - is a pretty significant achievement. Very few (if any) supporters have come on here and said MON can do no wrong - we all know he's not perfect, he makes mistakes and gets stuff wrong - yes of course he does. But don't come on here, slag him off to the hilt and denegrate his achievement of taking this side from 16th to 11th to 6th to maybe 5th in just a few short seasons. I sincerely doubt many that could have done much better in such a short period of time. Give the guy a break.
YatesyVillain
"about as one-eyed as my trouser snake" LMAO!!!
AVFC4ME
"about as one-eyed as my trouser snake" LMAO!!!
AVFC4ME
Part of the difference between the old regime and the new regime is that we have improved year on year consistently whereas with other managers we seem to have been up and down like a tarts knickers. The company that is aston villa is now not run like a dictatorship for the sole purpose of one persons coffers. O'Neill has made his fair share of mistakes but what manager hasn't and i have regularly disagreed with his tactics especially the debacle in Moscow. If we finish 5th then okay we cocked up but did the next best thing. If we end up 6th i won't be impressed and feel like its been thrown away. The key to all this will be his summer transfer activities. We are not going to get any higher up the league with the players we have, they are simply not CL material. If O'Neill fails to employ some quality players then we really should be questioning his credentials.
nottinghamvillain
Part of the difference between the old regime and the new regime is that we have improved year on year consistently whereas with other managers we seem to have been up and down like a tarts knickers. The company that is aston villa is now not run like a dictatorship for the sole purpose of one persons coffers. O'Neill has made his fair share of mistakes but what manager hasn't and i have regularly disagreed with his tactics especially the debacle in Moscow. If we finish 5th then okay we cocked up but did the next best thing. If we end up 6th i won't be impressed and feel like its been thrown away. The key to all this will be his summer transfer activities. We are not going to get any higher up the league with the players we have, they are simply not CL material. If O'Neill fails to employ some quality players then we really should be questioning his credentials.
nottinghamvillain
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