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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

Does This Clear It Up?

Well that's Martin O'Neill's question to David Moyes and those who think Petrov should've been sent off.

Speaking to the Birmingham Mail, O'Neill responded to Moyes' claims that Petrov should've seen red over the handball incident by saying Everton can't have it both ways.

"You can`t get a sending-off and then get the goal - that`s not the rules.

"The referee played the advantage for the goal to be put in the net so once they get the goal then the second decision doesn`t count.

"If he`d have not played the advantage it would have been a penalty kick and a sending-off offence.'

Questionning what David Moyes would have preferred at that stage of the game he said:

'I haven`t a clue what David Moyes would want. I assume he may, in the first few minutes of the game, have wanted the penalty with a possibility of scoring it and us being down to 10 men and still having to play another 80-odd minutes.

"The referee can only give one of two and he chose to give the advantage.'

To further end the confusion, O'Neill finished off by saying:

"Had they not scored I would have assumed the referee would have come back and awarded the penalty and sent our player off.

"Does that clear it up?"

Well it's crystal clear to me.

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The Journalist

Writer: Mike Field Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday February 16 2009

Time: 2:29PM

Your Comments

we are blessed to have such an intelligent manager.
Cool, clear logic. Irrefutable and all set out within the laws of the game.
Makes no difference really , Everton outplayed villa , (more possesion, more shots ), with petrog ,
we were unlucky not to draw
Sorry to say this but MON is talking out of his arse. Say if a player goes in 2 footed, the ref waves play on and they go on to score, the referee is well within his rights to then go back and send off the offending player. I don't see how handball is any different.
Handball is rarely a red card offence. It is normally punished with just a free kick. The red card, had there been one, would have been for 'preventing an obvious goal scoring opportunity'. As Everton scored Stan's hand ball did not prevent an 'obvious goal scoring opportunity'. What Stan did is completely different from a dangerous tackle, which is a red or yellow card wherever it occurs on the pitch. Does this clear it up?
chocolate teapot
Yeah, violent conduct doesn't need to happen on the pitch or in play for it to be punished by a red card. ie Substitutes getting sent off
it wasn't so much the hand ball that was the problem, it was more the fact he then tried to hide his hand that got me! LOL :o)
The Fear
It's just like the James Milner goal where he was bundled down in the area but managed to get his hand/head on the ball to score. MoN didn't go on TV to moan about that incident didhe? I would have expected a little more magnanimity in victory from Moyes
He should of given the goal then taken the play back and booked Petrov for deliberate hand ball in my opinion. Since the goal was scored, it shouldn't have been red. Although I'd rather have had the pen and him go.
Very true, andy5759. I've refrained from badmouthing Everton to this point because they were better on the day and deserved it; we deserved a draw at best. We were generally poor by our standards and Sidwell's non-performance was unforgivable (it led to so many other problems). But the fact Moyes is moaning about that decision makes him a 'beeyatch' and a poor winner.
This is bull. Referees go back and give cards to offenders all the time even if they played advantage at first. But anyways why does it matter to Moyes. He won, that should be the end of it.
An instinctive reaction from Petrov, but his sending off would have been a tremendous blow. As it turns out, his remaining on the field didn't change the outcome of the game, Everton running out fully deserved winners.
MON speaks the truth in this instance, anyone that disagrees is incorrect. The advantage is over when the ball goes in the back of the net therefore there is no incident to be punished. Even after they had scored the ref could have ordered a penalty and sent him off but as he didn't, there was no charge to answer.
Everyone seems to be getting very worried that we lost to Everton with a couple of key players out and with our minds and probably training techniques and tactics set up for our next 2 more important games. I am glad that we can now concentrate on the other two competitions with a very small squad and injuries starting to occur, aswell as starting our season well before everyone else. Everton have drawn with Liverpool twice and Arsenal once over the last month as well as beating Rafa's Spanish scousers once. They aren't in Europe anymore either. MON acts disappointed but I am sure that he isn't that bothered. Bring on Chelsea and 3rd place.
As stated before handball is only a red card offence if a direct goal scoring opportunity is denied. As the goal was scored one would assume that the goal scoring opportunity was not denied, therefore, by the rules of the game, it can't be a sending off. Of course, if the toffees want to take the game back to that point and get a penalty instead of the goal that would have been fine by me as it was still not a red card offence as the goal scoring opportunity was not denied and Brad might have saved the pen.
Villan Of The North
I wish he wouldn't bother. He's talking B****x
Moyes has to complain about something. Even when they win 3-1. It's never good enough and I feckin hate him. Don't mind Everton as a team though, huge fan of Cahill.
Moyes had every right to complain, this rule about not giving 2 decisions isn't real. The ref can play on, even if there is a goal and go back and dish out what's deserved. We should have been a man down and a goal behind and that's a fact.
No it's not PTP as a hand ball only leads to a sending off IF IT STOPS A DIRECT GOAL SCORING OPPORTUNITY. It claerly didn't as the goal was scored, therefore it should have been a penalty but the ref can't give a goal AND a penalty so no action was taken and that is correct. NOW THAT IS A FACT!
Villan Of The North
I’m afraid you’re wrong as well VOTN as the referee could have taken some action after the goal. The laws of the game state "If the referee applies advantage during an obvious goal scoring opportunity and a goal is scored directly, despite the opponent’s handling the ball or fouling an opponent, the player cannot be sent off but he may still be cautioned.". So the referee either decided not to caution Petrov, or in good refereeing practice didn't see the incident! Either way the referee applied the rules and could only have booked Petrov following the goal. However, if Petrov had been booked for the handball then would the referee had sent him off later in the game for the innocuous foul he did get booked for? Now that is where Moyes should be targeting his frustration at.
Hoss The Villain
Yes the ref can apply a caution after the advantage has been played but as stated earlier, handball is not an offense that is cautioned for unless it prevents a goal scoring opportunity, otherwise it's just a free kick/penalty. Was the goal scoring opportunity prevented? No. The ref couldn't give both the goal AND a penalty.
Villan Of The North
No one has suggested that a goal and a penalty be given. Petrov stopped a goal scoring opportunity and the referee played advantage because the ball fell to an Everton player who subsequently scored. Are you trying to suggest that Petrov didn't stop a goal scoring opportunity when he lifted his hand and stopped a goal bound shot crossing the line?
Hoss The Villain
DeanoVilla, your line "Say if a player goes in 2 footed, the ref waves play on and they go on to score, the referee is well within his rights to then go back and send off the offending player." I'm afraid is wrong. If a player is to be dismissed form the field of play it happens there and then. if there's an advantage or not. So, if you know a player is booked, makes (what you believe to be) a cautionable offence, bu the ref waves play on, I guarentee, he won't go back show a 2nd yellow and then red. From what I've seen, I can understand why the goal was given and that's it. However, I would have also understood if a booking was given to Stan after the goal as well. A dismissal would have only occurred, if, as rightly mentioned already, the penalty had been awarded.
PTP, can you give me an example of a goal being given and then the player who has handballed being sent off in a similar situation ever??? I don't think so. It hasn't happened before. THE REF PLAYED THE ADVANTAGE SO THERE IS NO OFFENCE TO ANSWER, unlike a dangerous tackle which would be a sending off for dangerous play. At the end of the day Petrov played the ball straight back to the player anyway who then scored so he has just delayed the goal scoring opportunity, not prevented it. (If he had used his hands properly, intentionally then the ball would be nowhere near the player.)

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