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What Do You Think Is Success?

Okay, so O'Leary is a bit of disaster at PR.

Let me pose this question . . . .

What would you accept as success from the Villa? By success, I mean reasonable happiness, renewal of season tickets, lack of general moaning, etc?

1. Contention for Euro Championship on a yearly basis
2. Contention for PL Championship on a yearly basis
3. Contention for CL Spot on a yearly basis
4. Contention for UEFA spot on a yearly basis
5. Top ten finish on an annual basis (read: finish between 5-10 position)
6. Avoid relegation battle annually (read: finish between 10-15 position)
7. Annual survival
8. Doesn't matter so long as we play with passion and purpose and give 100% effort

Now seriously, think about this list and define what you want. I know that a lot of folks were pretty irritated at strings of top ten finishes over the past few years, angered that we weren't 'taking the next step'. So stop for a moment and think about what the Villa could do to leave you all warm and fuzzy. Okay? Done?

Now, looking at that list, I would say that under Doug Ellis there isn't a manager, alive or dead, who could attain any of those top 3, and I'd argue that the 4th choice would be in there too, because that would be applicable only in those 'best' years, when the stars align and such. So, for my money, 1-4 are not possible under Doug, even if Shankley, Clough, Chapman, Busby and anyone else you may care to mention were all cloned together into a sort of uber-manager.

I'm also going to drop #7, cause I doubt that any Villa fan get all warm and fuzzy from finishing 15th to 17th. And frankly, I'll drop 8 too, because anyone on this list who tells me relegation is acceptable as long as we play with passion and purpose is either drunk or lying (and perhaps both).

That leaves me with 5&6. And, I'll tell you now that if you will genuinely be content with either of these, on an annual basis, for the foreseeable future, then these are achievable under Doug. And, that, barring weirdness, like takeover speculation or unusual injury problems or whatever, it is down to the manager to make these happen. For my nickel, O'Leary is sufficiently decent a manager to handle getting us to #5. I think that is what he promised, and though he will not make it this year, I think that there has been enough weirdness this year to grant him a waiver.

Now, I agree wholeheartedly that the football on display this year has been more or less wretched. And I agree that O'Leary couldn't charm a wet paper sack. And, both of these are reasonable complaints about the man. So, perhaps we can get a manager who is more cuddly the DO'L and perhaps we can get a manager who can play prettier football than DO'L.. But in the end, we will still be finishing somewhere between 5th and 15th, and there will be much complaining.

So seriously, think about what you want from Villa. Think about what keeps Villa from doing whatever it is you want. Then make the appropriate change. For my money, when one is has massive coronary artery disease, it isn't the best idea to have that nose job done while waiting for the cardiologist to get to you. So, O'Leary might as well stay. I want to finish annually between first and fifth. And at this point, the obstacle between me and that is not named O'Leary, it is named Ellis. No point getting a decent manager when we still pay only for mediocre personnel.

By Jeff Ray




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The Journalist

Writer: J P Fear Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday March 28 2006

Time: 4:01PM

Your Comments

For me with the current regime, it is option 5 (top ten) although I don't think we could push for 5th, we could push for Europe. Also the last option apart from it meaning relegation, but I think fans deserve to see 110% each game.
The Fear
For me with the current regime, it is option 5 (top ten) although I don't think we could push for 5th, we could push for Europe. Also the last option apart from it meaning relegation, but I think fans deserve to see 110% each game.
The Fear
I agree with fear and I'm happy with 5 as long as it as option 8 is thrown in there, with the team playing with passion and purpose. I agree that any of the top 4 are unrealistic with Ellis at the healm but I also believe that its the lack of 8 that has me questioning DOL'ds ability to do the job even when Ellis finally loses his grip.
Aronno7
I agree with fear and I'm happy with 5 as long as it as option 8 is thrown in there, with the team playing with passion and purpose. I agree that any of the top 4 are unrealistic with Ellis at the healm but I also believe that its the lack of 8 that has me questioning DOL'ds ability to do the job even when Ellis finally loses his grip.
Aronno7
I agree with Jon, inconsitency has been our biggest problem... Europe should of been reached last season when we finished joint 5th the season b4 but didnt get the place due to Millwall reaching the FA Cup Final. Villa have thrown games away this season, I have occasionaly seen some quality football, but then seen some huge costly mistakes.
leelindsay
I agree with Jon, inconsitency has been our biggest problem... Europe should of been reached last season when we finished joint 5th the season b4 but didnt get the place due to Millwall reaching the FA Cup Final. Villa have thrown games away this season, I have occasionaly seen some quality football, but then seen some huge costly mistakes.
leelindsay
Number 4 definately. It's not unrealistic. It's not long ago that we used to qualify for Europe every season (Remember those nights against Inter Milan? Atletico Madrid? etc.) It looks as if Bolton are going to qualify for Europe for the 2nd season running and they have done it on a budget. Difference is they have a good manager!
DeanoVilla
Number 4 definately. It's not unrealistic. It's not long ago that we used to qualify for Europe every season (Remember those nights against Inter Milan? Atletico Madrid? etc.) It looks as if Bolton are going to qualify for Europe for the 2nd season running and they have done it on a budget. Difference is they have a good manager!
DeanoVilla
No 5 is the best we can hope for under Ellis. Under William McGregor we reached for the stars. and thats what Aston Villa should be about.
Erod
No 5 is the best we can hope for under Ellis. Under William McGregor we reached for the stars. and thats what Aston Villa should be about.
Erod
Number 4 cannot be an unreasonable ask durely, as Everton, Bolton, Spurs, Man City are aiming for that as well surely we can compete with them with or without Ellis
fatloser
Number 4 cannot be an unreasonable ask durely, as Everton, Bolton, Spurs, Man City are aiming for that as well surely we can compete with them with or without Ellis
fatloser
But Jeff says, "So, O'Leary might as well stay." and then "I want to finish annually between first and fifth". The two - surely? - are incompatible!
the_lergy
But Jeff says, "So, O'Leary might as well stay." and then "I want to finish annually between first and fifth". The two - surely? - are incompatible!
the_lergy
I've got to agree with Jeff. I used to like DOL but over the past few months he has irritated the hell out of me. However, the underlying problem at Villa isn't DOL. We all know that. Changing the monkey won't make the music any better.
ooahPaulMcGrath
I've got to agree with Jeff. I used to like DOL but over the past few months he has irritated the hell out of me. However, the underlying problem at Villa isn't DOL. We all know that. Changing the monkey won't make the music any better.
ooahPaulMcGrath
Getting on DOL's back is getting us anywhere. It isn't helping the team and it's deflecting attention from the No 1 issue. If we are going get anywhere near 1- 4 above, it won't be with an 83 year old at the helm beacuse at that age, the futures not a place you want to be and living in the past is far more appealing. For my money, leave DOL alone until the season ends, get behind the team and concentrate on getting "ELLIS OUT".
Stevew
Getting on DOL's back is getting us anywhere. It isn't helping the team and it's deflecting attention from the No 1 issue. If we are going get anywhere near 1- 4 above, it won't be with an 83 year old at the helm beacuse at that age, the futures not a place you want to be and living in the past is far more appealing. For my money, leave DOL alone until the season ends, get behind the team and concentrate on getting "ELLIS OUT".
Stevew
I'd like to see if DOL can do any better without Doug being there. Maybe this will happen soon. But, regardless, a club like Villa - even with finances as the are at the mo' - should still be in with a realistic chance of UEFA spot. I get the feeling that Doug has slowly been grinding DOL down. Maybe the real reason for negativity flowing throughout the club and its fans?
Beovilla
I'd like to see if DOL can do any better without Doug being there. Maybe this will happen soon. But, regardless, a club like Villa - even with finances as the are at the mo' - should still be in with a realistic chance of UEFA spot. I get the feeling that Doug has slowly been grinding DOL down. Maybe the real reason for negativity flowing throughout the club and its fans?
Beovilla
Under Ellis, success is remaining in the premiership. And no, I'm not being flippant.
glensider
Under Ellis, success is remaining in the premiership. And no, I'm not being flippant.
glensider
 

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